The Heroless Age
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- mikehiggins
- DarkCapricorn
- Lefhalas
- cpgenson
- Mr_Creator
- doorjmr
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» mikehiggins - writing comics
Popular literature, which includes things like comic books, tends to reflect what is going on in the surrounding culture. When I was a youth the comics I read were, indeed, much more simplistic and linear than today's offerings. You could argue that the times were as well. It is possible to maintain the same point of view today, but the question is whether it would sell or not. My suspicion is that it would not.There are two reasons for this beleif. Firstly, the cost of comics today often put them beyond the reach of most kids. A cursory scan of the comic racks (where such exist--market penetration by comic books is drastically down compared to as much as a decade ago) shows that costs of more than $1.95 are not uncommon for such books as Superman or Spiderman. While the quality of the physical product might reflect such a cost in terms of better printing, better paper, etc., the argument can be made that such considerations are secondary to the reading pleasure of a better story, even printed on much more disposable stock. Costs would appear to have made it necessary for writers to appeal to an older, less "gee whiz" level of audience response, which means that storylines have to reflect a more adult understanding of the world that we live in. "Innocence" in many cases merely reflects ignorance, not some sort of moral superiority.
Which leads to the second issue, which is the increased sophistication of the readers. Leaving aside the mostly humorous musings some comic writers have discussed over whether or not Batman is a closet pedophile, or if it would even by physically possible for Superman to consummate his marriage to Lois Lane, there are some questions the modern comic writer has to consider that were far beyond the pale in the days of my youth. Even as recently as the 70's and 80's it would be unheard of to pose the question of whether or not Batman was responsible for all those crimes the Joker committed over the years, but in the 90's and 00's (if that is how this decade should be listed) it is an issue many readers can understand and appreciate. Marvel Comic's Punisher resonates with many readers because, while the storylines in that book often bring the term "simplistic" to new levels, the character's actions and motivations are much more in line with the world as many know it than is the much more heroic Spiderman.
One simple example of simplistic superheroism in the Spiderman book is identical to the one posed above regarding the Batman series. Why is the Green Goblin--the equivalent of the Joker--still alive? A kid can arguably accept the concept of a "hero" refusing to kill a captive villain out of hand, even though reader and character know full well that the villain would inevitably return to wreak havoc and destruction upon the hero himself and the general society. An adult is much less likely to blithely accept such a scenario. A writer in the 60's could easily ignore such a dilemma. A writer in the first decade of the new millenium, writing for an older, more experienced readership, is well advised not to.
Just some thoughts on a early Wednesday morning.
-- posted by mikehiggins
» DarkCapricorn - Re: writing comics
In response to message posted by mikehiggins:Hi there. I was both delighted and puzzled by the situation and the reply. As a timid writer wannabe, I delight in the possibilities; the example close at hand is the movie "Unbreakable", closely related to comics and its essence.
The fact is, yes, perhaps the contemporary heroes are less heroic than yesterday. One thing I have to say, before self indulging in rampantly talking about "my" comics. There's still the conflict between the pre and post Crisis on Infinite Earths, meaning much had to be forgotten in the rush for that cold chill named continuity.
In order to provide that much vaunted continuity, characters had to be centered, focused perhaps, or simply put: made realistic. Batman gained because of it, Superman just showed he was a hard issue in a realistic world.
I personally am amazed on how important Marvel's Punisher became, when we realized he was a different kind of hero. Or is he a hero at all? I prefer to say, he's not. He kills his enemies, and doesn't look back. He's an anti-hero. Post-Crisis Superman did the same on another reality, and almost lost his mind.
The most recent version of the Justice League comes to mind. DC's greatest, true heros back together, minus the dead ones, plus the new generation, in a world that really needs them together. Brilliant idea. Why is that? Because we needed our heros back. Because we need champions again, not avengers.
One thing I consider an addition to a character's personality is Marvel's Wolverine attachment to the X-Men. He likes belonging to that team, which I think is a very good though subtle metaphor to racial integration. In short words, Wolverine became popular because he is brutal, still he has done his best to measure his savagery to the ideals of Xavier's. I think that makes him a hero.
Then again, i was still naive in the 80's. Hm.
-- posted by DarkCapricorn
» Lefhalas - Re: Re: writing comics
In response to message posted by DarkCapricorn:I found that earlier in existence I wanted to be a hero. I used to help other kids on the playground when they were down. I also spent a lot of time in trouble. We used to have to walk on a yellow cirlce painted on the concrete during recess.
We are taught at a young age to be orderly. The avengers and even the Justice league are fantastic orginizations that don't work on the street because they would all be lined up walking on a giant yellow circle.
I was trying to merge the fantasy, the epitome in the comics, with the reality on the concrete. I was punished. I got tired of getting a spanking for dreaming so I stopped dreaming and i've had a hard time falling asleep since.
We have a need for a Superman or a need to become Superman. I would like to be the hero rather than wait for one to arrive but I don't know how to do that so I'm writing comic books.
I'm trying to make a comic now that deals with the need to be a hero. I don't have the power of Superman and I don't know anybody with that potential. So what if some real people tried to create vigilante justice downtown where you live? Why isn't it happening right now?
Ian
-- posted by Lefhalas
» cpgenson - Hero-Less Age
Another factor to conider when asking why today's comic book heroes are not as heroic as yesterday's is the Comic Code Authority. (CCA) The "official" reason for the creation of the CCA was to protect children. The unofficial reason was to put EC Comics out of business. Look at the horror comics EC was printing before the CCA. These comics are just as adult as the flawed, amoral, and/or immoral "heroic" comics we see today. Don't get me wrong. I like today's comics, but I also like the older heroic comics of the "silver age". Comics, like any business, will change over time. More comic book readers today are adults who grew up reading comics. As they matured, their tastes in comics changed. Plus, comic books are a business. The bottom line for any business is profit. To keep making a profit (thus keeping their jobs) comic publishers are putting out more mature stories. As long as those stories sell, they will keep making them. This is not to say that there are not comics for younger readers. Comic book publishers also know that they have to bring in the next generation of readers to ensure a future market. This means comic books for younger readers. This is the same phenomena you see in television. There are TV programs for adults, and programs for kids. Parents should work with their kids to make sure they are not watching programs they shouldn't. The same rule applies when at the comic shop. In the same way that TV now has ratings, comic books are intended for certain audiences. Most comic shops acknowledge this and keep the exgtreme stuff behind the counter. TV networks play the more adult movies later in the evening. Even video games have ratings these days. Basically it comes down to pre-reading the comic books you purchase for you children. It's more work, but if you really want to protect your children, it's worth it. Last, ask the clerk at the comic shop. They deal with this stuff all the time.-- posted by cpgenson
» Mr_Creator - I agree
I also think that there aren't enough heros anymore. I like reading "Shonen Jump", which is a monthly magazine full of manga. Manga means Japanese comics. It is full of the anime heros from shows like DragonBallZ, Yu-Gi-Oh!, Shaman King, and One Piece. The problem is that most of them are over 10 years old! Nowadays decent heros are hard to come by. I am making a comic called Serpent Stone, and it features a hero trying to save the world from a magical artifact. The main character is that same style hero that we all used to love, with a mixture of a little anime style. I wish more heros like that would be created. Either way we can always read old stuff!-- posted by Mr_Creator
» doorjmr - Cheap comics
I agree: comics are too expensive, short of merciful heroes, and geared to adults. One reason that hasn't yet been mentioned is the collection mentality in comics. Too much speculation about what it will be worth, vs. too little appreciation of passing it on to friends until it's too tattered to read. The solution is self-publishing the kind of comics you guys are talking about on cheap paper and distributing them at a reasonable price, maybe a dollar each (or even less). Can anyone make a living doing that? Which of you can tell me how? What a worthwhile venture. You know those Awake! magazines that missionaries put out in laundry rooms and everywhere else? They have to be pretty cheap to publish. Maybe they get a break on it for being Christians, but you get my drift.-- posted by doorjmr
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