How woud the Invasion of Japan Go?

Top 6. Dec 16, 1999 3:23 PM

» Karl_Timmerman - An Invasion of Japan would ahve been disatrous

The casulty rate on the allied side woul dahve been high. To make a point, look at what the Viet cong did to Americna troops in Vietnam. The Japanese people are a fierce people. They live by a code called the Budo. This discipline tested over thousands of years has made them a very tenacious fighting force. They would have allowed the American soldiers to land but they would have been cut to pieces. It was wise of truman to drop the Bombs.

If we did invade, Mac Arthur would have lead, and he would not need European Commanders. He had his own and he had something that the European theatre did not. THE UNITED STATES MARIEN CORPS! OOH-RAH!

-- posted by Karl_Timmerman

Top 7. Dec 17, 1999 10:18 AM

» Vcoggle - Invasion of Japan

1)MacArthur was the leader.
2)Kyushu and the harbour of Kagoshima was the first objective. Slated for Nov. of 45
3)Honshu/Tokyo was the second invasion/objective.
Slated for April(?) of 46
4)Commander of 1st US army (Along with his headquarters was on there way to the Pacific.)
5)Troops without enough combat points were slated for the Pacific.
6)101st AB, 82nd AB were staying in Germany.
17th AB (along with the 11th and 13th AB already there) was slated for the Pacific.
7) Not sure but I think the 20th, 16th and the 14th Arm. divs. were going to the Pacific.

-- posted by Vcoggle

Top 8. Dec 27, 1999 8:58 PM

» sw1222 - Don't forget the Soviet Union would also be involved

I don't know what date it was but the Grand Alliance agreed that after so and so date the USSR would declare war on Japan. With the Red Army and US Marine Corps working hand in hand, there would be a possiblity of the Cold War to "disappear" from history.

-- posted by sw1222

Top 9. Feb 14, 2000 3:06 PM

» easy_green - High US casualties

American casualties would have been very high, and the U.S. commanders acknowledged this in their planning. Any invasion force (and especially transports carrying Marines and soldiers) would have been subjected to an all-out kamikaze type attack. Some guess that as many as a quarter of the assault troops would have been lost before they even reached Japan.

-- posted by easy_green

Top 10. Jun 20, 2000 11:16 PM

» nbaedke - Operation Downfall-; Olympic and Cornet

Phase 1 was Operation Olympic; the invasion of Kyushu. This was to prepare the following invasion of Hokkido north of Tokyo in Operation Cornet.
It would start with the 40th Inf div and the 158th RCT invading small islands south of Kyushu so as to set up early warning radar stations for the invasion fleet.The 3rd and 5th Fleets would support the invasion with over 66 carriers with 2649 naval and marine aircraft.
On Kyushu the Eastern assault force would consist of the 25, 33, and 41st Inf div.The Southern assault force would have the 1st Cav, the 43rd, and the Americal Inf div.The Western Assault force would land the 2, 3, and 5th Marine div. this was to all start Nov 1. On Nov 8 the reserve force would land the 81st, 98th Inf, and the 11th Airborne div. This was to prepare the island as one big air and logistical base for Cornet.

Facing the 14 American Div would be 14 Japanese div, 7 independent mixed brigades, tank bigades, and SNLF forces. this would amount to about 790000 defenders vs the invading 550000 Americans.
On the Eastern shore would be the 156th, 212th and the 154th Inf Div. Reserves were the 25th and 77th Inf div. The south would have the 86th Inf div and 1 mixed inf brigade(strength as a RCT).
The Marines would have the toughest time with the 146th, 206th, and the 303rd inf div manning the beaches with the 6th Armored brigade, 125th mixed inf brigade, and 4th Artillery Division command. The 25th and 77th were also in stiking distance if the Eastern shore held.

Admiral William Leahy estimated that there would be over 250000 Casualties on Kyushu alone. MacArthur's chief of intelligence estimated that by the fall of 1946 casualties for the entire operation would be 1 million, MacArthurs staff even considered THAT a conservative estimate. Forcasts indicated that there would be 1000 Japanese and American casualties every hour .

Phase 2: Cornet
If Kyushu "went well" Cornet would commence March 1, 1946.
On the East of Tokyo the US 1st Army would land the 5, 7, 27, 44, 86, and 96th Inf Div, with the 1, 4, and 6th Marine Div.
South of Tokyo would land the 4, 6, 8, 24 (which my father was in), 31, 32, 37, 38, 87th Inf div with the 13th and 20th Armored div.
Following the assault the 2, 28, 35, 91, 95, 97, 104 Inf Div with the 11th AB div would be landed.
A total of 4.5 million American servicemen -over 40% of the active roster in 1945- were to be engaged in Downfall

A couple of additional points;
In the Planning of Downfall Allied intelligence had figured that the Japanese could field no more than 2500 aircraft. After the war it was discovered that with 6 underground factories,the Japanese were stockpiling planes, pilots and fuel and in fact had 5651 Army and 7074 Naval aircraft totaling 12725 planes. When the invasion was imminent and intitial force of 2000 fighters would fight for the skys, then 330 special navy pilots would then attack the main body to draw away fire support, then 825 kamakazies would then hit the transports. As the convoys approached their invasion achorages the fourth air assault of an additional 2000 kami's would hit the ships in waves of 200-300 in hour by hour attacks. This would make Okinawa seem pale in comparison.(we lost 33 ships to suicide planes there) This would also be coordinated with the 40 remaining submarines. The 23 destroyers and 2 cruisers left would sorti close to the beaches with some destroyers beached in front of the landing beaches for use as gun platforms. This was the plan for the Yamato at Okinawa before she was sunk.

ALSO, before the surrender, the populace were in training for home defense. All schools were closed to mobilize its school-age children, and manuals were distributed illustrating how to fight the Americans with satchels, molotovs, spears, swords, whatever the civilian could arm themselves with under the motto "one million will die for the emporer and nation"
The Imperial Army also had plans for the use and implementation of bactierialogical and chemical weapons to use on the beaches.

Neal

-- posted by nbaedke

Top 11. Jun 21, 2000 2:21 PM

» Suther - one point

Even though there is a large discrepancy in the expected casualties, it is safe to say that it would of been high. However, one point I would like to make is that there was a fear of mutiny among American politicians and military leaders. After Germany was defeated many of the Army soldiers considered their job done. They saw the war in the Pacific as being the arena of the Marines and Navy, and thought that they should finish what they started. Likewise, after victory in Europe, the American people were becoming war-weary. American culture does not cherish the idea of losing lives in foreign countries. Between the Army's resentment for having to go to the Pacific after they did their job, and the growing tiredness of civilians toward war, the government wanted to end war as quickly as possible. Obviously, I am not saying that the expected body count was not important, but repercussions of dragging the war out longer would of been another serious problem in an invasion of Japan.

-- posted by Suther

Top 12. Jun 21, 2000 2:32 PM

» Suther - a question for nbaedke

You seem to know alot about the planing of the invasion. I heard, or read, somewhere, that some people proposed using nuclear power in support of a land invasion. I think one plan was to nuke the beach-heads before the invasion. (They didn't have detailed info on radiation.) Obviously if this was proposed it was abondoned for the droping of the bombs on H and N. I was wondering if you have info that supports or discredits this and could explain it further than I can. I don't know where I got the idea from or if it is at all based in the truth.

-- posted by Suther

Top 13. Dec 8, 2002 6:57 PM

» rotdon - Re: Don't forget the Soviet Union would also be involved

In response to message posted by sw1222:

in the moment that a million US soldiers were fighting in Japan, Europe will be easily conquered by the soviet army. And remember that, then, the troops that defend Europe not only will fight the soviet army, so the communist parties (some of them very powerful) of the european countries will support the soviet invasion. In that case, it will be a hypertrophic view of the Monroe's doctrine "America for the americans", It'll be "Europe for the europeans" (well, the soviets as well.

-- posted by rotdon

Top 14. Jan 1, 2003 6:14 PM

» BLTZKRG70 - TOO MANY CASUALTIES

An invasion of Japan, from what I have read, would have lead to extremely high casualties. Some of the worst fighting in the Pacific was when we were fighting on Okinawa, considered a part of Japan by the Japanese people. It would have been worse trying to take an island larger than any of the others we had fought on in the rest of the Pacific. Plus, every man, woman, and child would have been ready to cause as much havoc and casualties as they could.

The other consideration would have been the Soviet entrance into the war in the Pacific. This would have lead to splitting Japan similar to what was done in Germany at the end of the war. I think this would have lead to much greater problems during the Korean War and Vietnam War, with Russian having much more influence in the Pacific Theater of operations.

In the end, the bombs dropped by tEnolanola Gay" and "Box Car" saved millions of lives that would have been wasted at the end of World War II.

-- posted by BLTZKRG70