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Islands in the Sky: Ladin, Romansh and FriulanRead the article this discussion is about
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» Dubh_Sidhe - Galpagosly Speaking! What a facinating article, Rob. I certainly learned a thing or two from it. And, it occurred to me that people, too, even families fall into the doctrine of insularity or have I simply implied what is already known, or am I using it incorrectly? I was particularly thinking of my brother and myself--how different we have become with so many miles and time between us, yet there is that bond of similarity, but the diversity is terribly strong! We seem to speak a "different language" when we are together!Dubh Sidhe -- posted by Dubh_Sidhe » rkhen - Darwin and stuff Well, Virginia, though anthropologists frown on transfering Darwinian theories to cultural situations, I must say I agree with you. (Anthropologists have good reason to be cautious, by the way; Darwin's theories were horribly prostituted by 19th century racists seeking a "scientific" rationale for their crackpot notions of ethnic superiority.)The interesting thing about all of Darwin's discoveries is that they're perfectly obvious. The man himself insisted he had no particular genius. He just looked at stuff. Anecdotes about his patience are almost incredible. Apparently he did a lot of his research in his own backyard, spending three hours a day walking a single short path, taking note of absolutely everything visible to his naked eye. Over the course of several years, he based groundbreaking biological theories on those and similar observations. So today we look at the doctrine of insularity and say, "Well, duh!" It's hard to believe it wasn't always common knowledge, still harder to believe it was ever controversial. But it took Darwin's copious notes on every stupid detail of every stupid sparrow he collected to prove definitively that organisms change according to predictable patterns, and that these patterns can be observed in real time. So yes, I agree with your correlation. Not just family members, but old friends, people from our native culture who have since moved to a different part of the world, in fact anyone with whom we have anything in common, and are then separated from, demonstrates the doctrine of insularity in his or her behaviour when we meet up again. I find the differences, and then the similarities, alternately fascinating. I hope anthropologists, who are already unsure they like linguists (social scientists that they are) borrowing from Darwin, will indulge me. Thanks again for the kind words, Virginia. -- posted by rkhen » gabri - re The Friulans, Ladins & Romansh I was amazed to discover the article on these three language groups; I am of Friulan origin, both my parents being Friulan.Interestingly, my paternal grandfather is from Ranzo, above Trento in Northern Italy. This is immediately south of Ladin and also of Romansh speaking peoples. Whilst the Romansh and the Ladins were to some extent less exposed during the time of the Roman Empire, the people that developed the Friulan culture were right in the North Eastern gateway to the Italic Peninsula. The area was constantly being swept through by one or other group of invading barbarians, especially after the fall of Rome. The Longobards established this area as their final 'home', bringing with them skills in working metal, especially in the production of armaments. They introduced the concept of duchys, their leaders being 'dukes', this structure having survived to this day. Conquerors either swept through and disappeared in history, or if they remained like the Longobards, they seemed to have been absorbed. No matter what transpired, the Latin derivative survived and along with it a regional consciousness of 'being Friulan'. The phenomenon is fascinating but not well known beyond the Friulan consciousness. Today, the area has had an enormous influx of Italians from other parts of Italy; the Friulan is less spoken, but the idea of being Friulan seems to remain strong, assimiliating the newcomers as well in time - the same old phenomenon merely repeating itself. Ladins and Romansh are considered 'close' although there is no major effort in these groups to talk to each other to understand how on earth they maintained these identities and cultures! These are just a few comments resulting from my surprise at seeing the article. One last item of trivia - the word 'gondola' derives from Friulan - it means what you would expect it to mean i.e. a rocking motion - even the Venetians who ruled the area for centuries were influenced. Regards, Gabri Rigotti -- posted by gabri » biogardener - now that was a posting! I sure enjoyed reading Gabri's posting. It is great getting this kind of reader input.-- posted by biogardener » rkhen - I'll add my applause to Traute's. I'll add my applause to Traute's. Very enjoyable reading, Gabri.As the article suggests, Rhaeto-Romance cultures and languages have always fascinated me. I'm glad to hear that ethnic pride is alive and well in that area. With luck, it will bolster speakers' efforts to preserve their languages. Thanks for the post, Gabri, and I hope to see you again. -- posted by rkhen » gabri - Thanks for the interest Traute and Rob. Thanks for the interest Traute and Rob.I will try and locate some of the Friulan websites that have come into being as part of the growing cultural consciousness in the area and also in the 'diaspora' at large; Something that I might not have mentioned in my previous article is that there is a very strong poetic tradition, and perhaps this amounts to the largest concentration of Friulan literary work. Almost every other person seems to have written a poem of sorts!This would be fortunate as poetry distils culture and can present quantum amounts of thought in concise deliveries. The language rhymes easily so a poet can convey thought without altering his/her intention for the sake of the rhyme. Rhyme seems to be the norm rather than the exception. Poetry from the immigrations of the Fifties and Sixties seems to be around and their translated works makes for interesting reading. Mountains, forests and hardships (especially that which goes with immigration) are in abundance as themes. So the love for the physical area and the separation from it are often intertwined. However, it is far from doom and gloom nowadays. The area is very well economically and life is probably seen to be pretty good by most. My views on Friuli and Friulanity are not really academic - more impressionistic as a member of the community abroad - so some academic input would be useful and hopefully forthcoming from the area in the future. Regards, Gabri -- posted by gabri
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