Pasta la feasta, baby
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- CunningVixen
- proudfoot
- Michael_Martinez
- CunningVixen
- proudfoot
- Michael_Martinez
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» CunningVixen - British use of the word "corn"
I have to back up a statement in this article that the word "corn" may be a generic grain reference, not a reference to maize.British usage of the term "corn", especially in British farming contexts, almost never refers to maize if the writing is before 1950, and in British agricultural traditional materials. (For an example, check out the short stories of H.E. Bates, a Tolkien contemporary who also wrote fiction immortalizing a vision of the British countryside. His short story, "The Good Corn," refers to a field of waving wheat.) I'm living in New Zealand right now, the last bastition of boring British culinary traditions, and I can hardly find "cornmeal" based on corn in the supermarket, although I can find oats, barley, etc. It's just not a very British ingredient.
Based on this, I'd theorize that the lembas "corn" was almost 99% likely a form of wheat. A lembas recipe would probably be like less like Tostitos White Corn Cantina Dippers and more like some elevated Nilla Wafers. I'm sorry, but with Tolkien's descriptions, the brown outside and creamy inside that's how I visualized it!!!
-- posted by CunningVixen
» proudfoot - Re: British use of the word "corn"
In response to message posted by CunningVixen:I completely support CunningVixen on this one. Tolkien was fond of using archaic definitions and meanings of words in his stories. It's one of the things that I always admired in his style; the characters actually SOUNDED in "period". Prior to the 20th century, when a British writer spoke of "corn", he meant wheat or a similar grain. Corn in the sense of American maize, as we recognize it today, was unknown to the ancient stories that Tolkien used as references for his writing. (English explorers and settlers referred to maize as "American corn", which is how we got started on that meaning.) As a member of a Renaissance Festival cast, I have been told NOT to use "corn" when speaking to festival visitors, as the archaic meaning would confuse Midwestern people who have a very definite image of corn.
Lembas as high-energy nilla wafers. Very funny, that. ^_^
-- posted by proudfoot
» Michael_Martinez - Re: Re: British use of the word "corn"
In response to message posted by proudfoot:The issue is far from settled. But unless it can be shown that people weave or have woven baskets from the haulms of the smaller grains, Tolkien (who introduced American plants such as tomatoes, potatoes, and tobacco to his stories) was most likely deriving his lembas corn from maize.
He was certainly not writing about a normal grain by any means, regardless of what model he intended for it. This was a "white corn", the like of which is (to my admittedly limited knowledge) found only in the maize family.
But the description Tolkien provided for the plant's origin and purpose -- a gift from the Valar to the Elves, intended only for Elven consumption -- removes it from the mundane grain families on both sides of the ocean. It simply resembles maize in the way it is grown (in gardens) and the way its haulms (stocks) are used to make baskets.
-- posted by Michael_Martinez
» CunningVixen - Grasping at straws and underwater basket-weaving
I was impressed enough by this post to say, "Hmmm. Can, in fact, wheat/oat/barley straw be made into baskets? Can maize stems?" Based on the supplies available at the following web site, and related basketry links:1. Wheat-type grass is not suitable for basket making, being overly brittle. It is not provided as a basket-making material but rather for decorative woven items.
2. Maize stems are not necessarily favored as basket-weaving material either. I don't know why, but they're not on the basket-weaving web sites, either, and practically everything else you could make a basket out of IS, including pine needles, vines, and several varietes of something called "seagrass".
Site: http://www.gratiotlakebasketry.com
Anyhoo, there's certainly room in our imaginations for whatever we want to imagine lembas to be like based on Tolkien's vague and idealistic descriptions, especially considering that he doesn't seem to have spent a lot of time basket-weaving either. While I pictured the FLAVOR as being wheat-like, I pictured the PLANT as being like one of the very early and primitive cultivated maize varietes, about what it looked like in 4000 BC.
-- posted by CunningVixen
» proudfoot - Re: Grasping at straws and underwater basket-weaving
In response to message posted by CunningVixen:Primitive cultivated maize... I can go along with that. Must remember to tell myself that LOTR and Middle-Earth in general is not necessarily a complete clone of 11th century Europe. I always supposed lembas had a honey wheat flavor, because Gimli scarfs an entire serving based on taste. I think Tolkien slipped up on the corn/maize comaprison when he described it as basket material. As a former country boy and descendant of farmers, I cannot seriously imagine using any part of corn to make a useful basket. (Although if anyone could do so, it would be the Elves.)
-- posted by proudfoot
» Michael_Martinez - Re: Re: Grasping at straws and underwater basket-weaving
In response to message posted by proudfoot:I have seen baskets made from portions of the maize plant. I have no idea of how much work went into them. But I think people are placing too much emphasis on real plants. Tolkien had something in mind with which certain things could be accomplished, and it was a plant not intended for mortal consumption. So, yes, that leaves everything to the reader's imagination. I'm just convinced that limiting one's imaginings to plants found only in the Old World is...well, limiting. The same is equally applicable of limiting one's imaginings to maize. But if Tolkien had a model in mind, I think he probably based the white corn on maize. It would not be the only American influence on Middle-earth by any means.
-- posted by Michael_Martinez
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