The Middle-earth Prophecies
Read the article this discussion is about
- desertblue
- Michael_Martinez
- BandwagonNewbie
- lindil
This archived discussion is "read only".
For the corresponding "live" discussions, post in the active topic forum here.
» desertblue - Palantiri
In regards to this subject I am wondering about the other sources of vision. What is the source of Denethor's palantir visions? Controlled unseen by Sauron, but whither comes the visions that Sauron permits?There are also the Hobbit's dreams in Bombadill's house, some of which are prophetic or clairvoyant (and some just disturbed dream fragments).
Are Galadriele's messages to Aragorn and Legolas via Gandalf good guesses based on her own store of wisdom, or based on mirror-visions, or something else entirely?
What about those visions on Amon Hen?
Frodo himself becomes prophetic as his burden drags him along. He has a sense that Gollumn has a part to play, and later he admonishes Gollumn not to touch him again, lest he be cast into the fire (although this could be the Ring speaking).
Finally, it seems to be that men with stronger strains of Numenorean/Elvish blood seem capable of greater intuition (Aragorn, Faramir, Denethor, Imrahil).
An interesting topic. I never gave it any thought before, as I assumed there was just more "magic" to go around in a younger Earth.
-- posted by desertblue
» Michael_Martinez - Re: Palantiri
In response to message posted by desertblue:Those are all good questions, and some had occurred to me as I wrote and researched the article. But it seems one could probably write a book about Middle-earth prophecy. 
-- posted by Michael_Martinez
» BandwagonNewbie - Morgoth's curse
A question was asked on a board somewhere about what might happen if Morgoth had cursed Tuor instead of Turin. If what you suggest about Middle-earth curses not fixing their targets' fates is true, then it's likely that Tuor would have overcome such a curse.-- posted by BandwagonNewbie
» lindil - foresight and forecasting
"The limitations of forecasting may explain why Tom Bombadil couldn't offer the Hobbits much advice concerning their road. He didn't believe the Nazgul would trouble them for long (he was, in fact, wrong). The Nazgul were watching Bree when Frodo and his companions arrived. Tom was apparently relying upon his knowledge of the land and the creatures he knew. His experience with the Nazgul was limited, and therefore he wasn't very good at predicting what they might do. And he said as much to the Hobbits."Also I think the possibility exists that BOmbadil was trying to use his intuition [i.e. open himself to foresight] and when he did he sensed that the Hobbits would ultimately be safe for a while, so that was true, but it was not do to his then forecasting that the Nazgul would not bother them, it was instead due to the fact that at that very moment, Aragorn was already begining to watch over them, unknown to BOmbadil's knowledge, and seeming ly not clearly revealed to his foresight. So in my interpretation, his intuition was correct but his attempt to explain why [which he admitted was limited outside of his land] was lacking.
"The uncertainty of Tom's predictions is matched by the uncertainty of the revelations in Galadriel's mirror. Her little basin filled with water is clearly revealing things, so the visions Frodo and Sam perceive in it are true prophetic visions. But Galadriel warns them that it is not easy to discern whether the revelations are about the past, the present, or the future. And she also points out that not everything the mirror "predicts" comes to pass. So, where is the mirror getting its visions from? Is Galadriel's magic capturing the random thoughts of sleeping Ainur? Or is Iluvatar handing out visions like fortune cookies?"
Very good point, I can only postulate that the Mirror may soehow access either the 'streams of time' of which alternate currents must exist based upon the possible freewill choices or somehow our futures may be to an unkown degree imprinted upon our Fea.
Both of these theories [and that is all they are] are based upon the orthodox Christian idea that explains 'pre-destination' not as compulsion on God's part which would be evil, but upon God's omniscience and ability to view all possible futures and to know what choice will be made, because in eternity all lines of time exist simaltaneously.
So perhaps galadriel has discovered away to probe this, all rather dubious from a Roman Catholic [ or any traditional/orthodox form of Christianity for that matter] anyway you slice it, and a curious incorporation of what is clearly labeled in our world as an occult or magical practice being used by she whom is otherwise a paragon of virtue and wisdom in the LotR.
I shall have to look into the Letters to see what the Prof. has to say [if anything] about the Mirror.
To be continued....
-- posted by lindil
Please follow the guidelines set forth in the Suite101 Posting Etiquette when adding to the discussion.