Guess who's coming to the disaster

Top 2. Jul 26, 2001 10:02 PM

» Michael_Martinez - Re: Good job

In response to message posted by Shieldmaiden:

I can't really promise anything, but it's hard to say "No" to a request as sweet as yours. smile

I'll see what I can do in the next month or two.

Thanks for the feedback.

-- posted by Michael_Martinez

Top 3. Mar 10, 2002 2:36 PM

» Eldanuumea - Re: Re: Good job

In response to message posted by Michael_Martinez:

My daughter and I have always wistfully longed for Aragorn to end up with the woman obviously meant for him....Eowyn. Now, we are really upset! I just read Tolkien's notes at the end of TREASON
at ISENGARD (History of Middle=Earth series) and he initially WANTED Aragorn and Eowyn to marry....then decided Aragorn was too old and "grim" for her. Arwen is not even present in Tolkien's drafts and notes up till this point. So, why did Tolkien have to invent a love-interest for Aragorn when he had a suitable woman already present in the text? I can't wait to get to the next book in this series to see how Arwen comes up.

-- posted by Eldanuumea

Top 4. Apr 22, 2002 9:35 AM

» Maciliel - Re: Re: Re: Good job

I loved this article and have never wondered at the place of women in Tolkien - it always seemed balance to me. Tolkein wrote from a male perspective and many of the deeds were done by men, but when you've got gals like Galadriel and Eowyn around, you've got to know that no misogynist wrote the book - these women are very powerful people. Galadriel is a behind the scenes mover and shaker, and I have to admit its been years, but I once had a thing for Celeborn. He was a secure guy if there ever was one.

Also, Eowyn and Faramir always seemed the perfect match to me. He was a re-emerging force in a culture that had become decadent to some degree (at least temporarily) and was interested in the history and culture of his people in order to improve the world, a gentleman, scholar and valiant soldier at the same time. Eowyn was of a people full of energy, though far less effete. I always get the sense that the Rohirrim were on the rise so to speak, perhaps beginning to become a literated instead of oral culture, and this union would pave the way for the evolution of both cultures so to speak. They always seemed well matched personality wise. Ooops, got to go teach a class...

-- posted by Maciliel

Top 5. May 10, 2002 11:54 AM

» Michael_Martinez - Re: Re: Re: Re: Good job

In response to message posted by Maciliel:

I do regret never having found the time to write something about Eowyn. She (and her shieldmaiden forebears) deserves better. I've promised to write about Boromir for the May 2002 article, but I'll start working on an Eowyn essay, too.

-- posted by Michael_Martinez

Top 6. Nov 12, 2002 12:22 PM

» ShaunaGM - Yes, but...

You've done a very, very good job of disproving the myth that "there isn't any romance in Tolkien!" However, that isn't necessarily what might turn women off to Tolkien.

Speaking as a female (and a teenage one at that!), and for many other females I know, Tolkien is just as accesible and enjoyable to women as to men. But most of the people I know cite not a lack of romances but the prevalence of them as a main peeve of theirs.

Simply put, there are few women playing major roles in the LotR, and those that do often are only important in relation to that romance. We see Aragorn as a strong leader and a man in doubt, as a friend and a king, and we see him in half the chapters. We see Arwen only as she relates to him, only as a romantic object. Her symbolic decision to become human is inextricably tied to her love for Aragorn.

While characters such as Lobelia Sackville-Baggins and Ioreth are both interesting and wonderfully asexual, they're rare. I'm not denying that there aren't good, multi-faceted female characters, although Eowyn and Galadriel are the only ones that spring readily to mind. I'm also quite aware of the wealth of strong female characters in the Silmarillion (although, I must point out that even there the society is patriarichal. Where are the female lords of Gondolin? Where are the female kings of Valinor and Middle Earth?)

So I think you're mistaken in what the female problem is with Tolkien. We don't want any more of the stereotyped, old-fashioned mushy romances - we want female role models. That's why we prefer Galadriel to Arwen, and why we decry the romanticization of Eowyn (would it have really hurt the storyline to have Eowyn fall in love a few years later?)

But we also understand that to actually make strong female characters would undermine Tolkien's attempts to make it historically realistic. And we can see what Tolkien's writings are worth. So no, in one assertion at least you are correct. Tolkien is not a "man's" writer.

-- posted by ShaunaGM