Gil-galad was an Elven-king...
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- Ecthelion
- a_d
- Michael_Martinez
- AniSaguine
- Michael_Martinez
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» Ecthelion - Why was Orodreth made a grandson of Finarfin?
An excellent article, but one thing still puzzles me. Why was Orodreth made a grandson of Finarfin? This doesn't seem to make any sense, as it would make Orodreth the first of Finwe's great-grandson's to be mentioned. He would have been born in the blessed realm and grown to an age where he was considered mature enough to take on a responsibility as vital as the guardian of Minas Tirith, long before others of his generation like Maeglin had ever been conceived. Does anyone know the rationale for this? Or is it possible this was an afterthought of Tolkien's he abandoned?-- posted by Ecthelion
» a_d - parentage of gil-galad
it seems strange that there would be a controversy about the parentage of gil-galad, considering it is so clearly spelt out in 'peoples of middle earth'. yet, for my thinking (and admittedly against tolkien's own view), i prefer the 'ephemeral idea' that gil-galad was the son of fingon, as making him the great grandson of finarfin removes him too far from the great princes of the first age. as the son of fingon the valiant it is most fitting an heroic ending for him to die in hand-to-hand combat against sauron. it's a shame that kingship was decided upon patriarchal lines, as i'd prefer galadriel daughter of finarfin as high queen of the noldor than the grandson of her brother... maybe she would too?? ;)-- posted by a_d
» Michael_Martinez - Tolkien's vision of Gil-galad changed through the years
Gil-galad started out as more an aspect of other stories that only gradually developed into a fuller character, though one without his own true story.That Gil-galad should be Finrod's heir in some way was Tolkien's intention through many years, far longer than just the brief period in which the ephemeral idea of his being Fingon's son was a "fact" (if, indeed, it ever was a "fact" in Tolkien's mind -- we have no idea of how long he was satisfied with the marginal note).
The genealogical change doesn't dissatisfy me. In fact, I find it more fulfilling, in that it shows Finwe's family continued rather than ended. I feel some dissatisfaction with Gil-galad's failure to find a wife through more than 3,000 years. Why couldn't he find someone to love? Was there tragic story bound up there waiting to be told?
-- posted by Michael_Martinez
» AniSaguine - Gil-Galad as son of Orodreth
I think a problem that is presented with the idea that Gil-Galad was the son of Orodreth of the house of Finarfin is the succession of the High Kings. Why, if Gil-Galad was merely cousin to Turgon, would he become High King instead of Earendil who was Turgon's grandson and of the house of Fingolfin? Sure, he was half-elven, but so was Dior Eluchil and he still became King of Doriath after Thingol's death. Age also seems to have nothing to do with any of the events surrounding the half-elven (Elwing and Earendil had Elrond and Elros while they were less than 30 years old, pretty young for elves) so the idea that he was too young (just 7) doesn't help when we consider that Gil-Galad was still pretty young for an Elf at the time that he inherited the crown (about 55 or so). Overall, it's confusing, especially when we consider the part of Idril and Tuor in all of this. She is actually the first woman to come into the line of succession for the crown of the Noldor (Aredhel died, so she doesn't count). Obviously she wouldn't even be considered (how insulting) but seeing as she was an intelligent elf, I'm sure she would have made a good regent while her son grew up. Unlike Gil-Galad's mother (the wife of either Fingon or Orodreth) she is mentioned and would have most likely have been acceptable as a regent or even as High Queen. Tuor, although a man, must have been at least partially a good idea, at least until Earendil came of age. Or were the Noldor too proud to acknowledge any of the three of them as High King/Queen?-- posted by AniSaguine
» Michael_Martinez - Re: Gil-Galad as son of Orodreth
In response to message posted by AniSaguine:Daughters did not inherit the crown among the Eldar. Why? I have no idea. But there are no ruling queens among them. So, Idril and her son Earendil were never in the line of succession. Dior is a special case because he did not inherit the crown of Doriath, he re-established it. He called himself "Thingol's Heir" and some people have argued strenuously that means that he succeeded Thingol directly. However, that simply isn't the case. Doriath was destroyed and Dior re-established the kingdom. Tolkien stipulated this in more than one passage.
If we accept Gil-galad as the son of Fingon -- an idea Tolkien himself never seriously considered -- we must then ask why he was passed over in favor of Turgon, when the High Kingship passed to Turgon. Some people have pointed out that Maedhros ceded the Kingship over the Noldor to Fingolfin, and in doing so declared that Fingolfin should be king anyway since he was the eldest of the House of Finwe.
However, Maedhros was making a concession to heal the rift between the two groups of Noldor, and to atone for his father's betrayal of kin (when Feanor abandoned Fingolfin and most of the Noldor in Araman). It cannot be shown that Maedhros was doing anything other than smoothing ruffled feathers.
If the High Kingship were really going to be decided upon who was eldest, then the crown should have passed back to Maedhros upon Fingolfin's death. Of course, some people have argued that once the crown passed beyond the House of Feanor, they no longer had a right to it. But the issue is not whether the Feanorians had a right to the High Kingship. They were never High Kings to begin with. Fingolfin was the first High King of the Noldor-in-Exile. Maedhros, Finrod, and Turgon were all kings in their own rights.
Hence, the rules governing the High Kingship only begin with Fingolfin. Now, they may have inherited something from the rules governing the Kingship over the Noldor, but those rules are not clearly spelled out. So we are left to decide for ourselves what rules we will infer must have been applied.
A succession from father-to-son, down the line of descent, is the easiest inference. It fits all the available facts -- if we accept Tolkien's decision that Gil-galad was really the son of Orodreth. Otherwise, we're left with the awkwardness of the High Kingship bouncing around the family like a hot potato, as well as Christopher Tolkien's self-admitted error in making Gil-galad the son of Fingon.
There are many Silmarillions, of course, and many histories (most of which really exist only in fragments). Gil-galad is Finrod's son in one or two of those histories. So, people who want to picture Gil-galad as the son of Fingon are not simply making stuff up.
But when someone asks, "Who was Gil-galad's father?", there is only one answer which is more authoritative than all others, and that J.R.R. Tolkien's answer: Orodreth.
-- posted by Michael_Martinez
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