The Merchants of Middle-earth
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- Erethrin_Morian
- Michael_Martinez
- isengar
- Elvishgurl666
- Myshka
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» Erethrin_Morian - Buying and Selling
It is interesting to note that although Tolkien created Elvish words for trade/commerce there does not appear to be any attributable words for "buy" and "sell" (at least published to date).I find it interesting that in his languages which are so well thought out, two important words dealing with exchange of goods are neglected. I wonder if this is a conscious decision on Tolkien's part, prefering the simpler barter economy connoted by "trade" rather than a more sophisticated economy based upon coinage and the associated "buying" and "selling" of goods.
Your references all indicate that Tolkien did indeed consider money as part of the economy. It will be interesting to see if these words come to light as future material is released by the estate.
-- posted by Erethrin_Morian
» Michael_Martinez - Buying, Selling, Money...
In discussing this matter with some other Tolkien researchers earlier this year, I came to accept their conclusion that we can't really show conclusively the Elves used money to buy and sell among themselves (but they probably would have used it for commerce with other peoples). I'd like to know more about Elvish culture but have no idea of what else will come to light. I am told there is an immense amount of linguistic material which has not yet been published.-- posted by Michael_Martinez
» isengar - Is it the coins that count?
As much energy as Tolkien put in fleshing out Middle-earth and its peoples, he did not have enough time for everything. Many times, it seems his work on a specific area was prompted by fan letters asking questions that he felt were pertinent. Asking what kind of coinage existed in Middle-earth is interesting but fruitless since Tolkien apparently didn't get a chance to really explore that avenue. Even so, apart from visualizing pretty coins, it would seem more interesting to discuss economy in general with the sense of discovering just how the peoples of Middle-earth interacted with and depended on one another. After all, that's what's most intriguing and human about economies.For example, the most revealing fact revealed in this article is that Dwarves did not grow their own food. It says a lot about Dwarves and thus about how they would relate with others. Food after all is a very important cultural element. We bond when we eat and that Dwarves had no food of their own says they would have to really get to know something about the other peoples by learning about their food. In this way, they are in a unique position. At the same time, this makes them as vunerable as their slow speed of procreation. Perhaps more so. Without Elves, Hobbits and Men the Dwarves would not survive long.
This also demonstrates how the peoples of Middle-earth do form part of an ecosystem, one in which the Dwarves' role seems to be as smiths--a role integral to any civilization. But does the coinage matter? Not at all. For those of us who eat and breathe Middle-earth, yes, it's a great area in which to speculate, but for the stories and the basic understanding of these realms it's not. It's enough to know what wealth and poverty is. And this can be demonstrated visually by describing how people live, dress, etc. Tolkien has done this much so that we get a sense of how different people are doing economically.
The fact that Tolkien has left his writing on Middle-earth uncluttered with a lot of this 'real world' nonsense helps us forget about our own troubles and adore his world for what it is. Let's face it: whenever we watch TV or movies, these issues are thrust into our face. We are sick of dealing with the haves and have-nots. Middle-earth takes us away from all that. If anything, we notice that among the good peoples of Middle-earth there is the sense of helping out your fellow. The Elves give the hobbits supplies they could not do without and probably not afford without a platinum visa. We get a sense that at least in THAT world, if you are in need, people will help you.
It's a world pre- all the complexities of our modern economies. If there was such a thing in Middle-earth I doubt that the alliances important to its survival would have formed. Look how much economy interferes in our world with anything that might benefit humanity. How would the story have gone if Gondor was economically tied by the fact that they needed Mordor's oil? No, let's not have talk of coins and economy in Middle-earth. They were more humane.
-- posted by isengar
» Elvishgurl666 - Learning how to speak elvish
Hi all who are reading this. Im trying to learn Elvish because Tolkien's studies thrill me beyond belief. I was wondering if anyone here could help me learn the language and how to speak itIf so please e-mail me @ ICESK8NLIZ@aol.com thank you!!
-- posted by Elvishgurl666
» Myshka - Re: Learning how to speak elvish
In response to message posted by Elvishgurl666:I recommend that you check out Ardalambion, an old and respected Elvish site found at http://www.uib.no/People/hnohf/
They have information on Sindarin, Quenya and Noldorin, including a course on Quenya.
See also http://www.elvish.org/gwaith/movie_elvis...
the Elvish dialog list from the recent movies, with useful pointers to other sources.
The old and respected Encylopedia of Arda has useful information and links http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/
Last, but certainly not least, Michael Martinez' article on the subject, So You Want to Learn Elvish? found at http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/tolk...
Hope these are useful.
-- posted by Myshka
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