The Mind of the Abuser

» taximom04 - Re: Does RET help abuse victim 'deal' with narcissist?

In response to message posted by motnam:

Dear motnam,

Hi. I just read your message and though I have no answer I wanted to offer my support and also ask that if you get an answer to this question would you please pass it along to me. I am just learning about all of this (in the last two weeks) after 18 years of marriage and am finally beginning to see that what my family has been going through has an actual definition and description and that there are others that can understand and relate. What a relief! To know I'm NOT crazy and am NOT the "source of all the problems". I want to help him but he still needs me to be his excuse. I stopped being it and he left me. Now he wants me back. I am reeling from what I've discovered. It's almost harder to accept than ME being the problem. (ME I can change.) I am brokenhearted for me and for my boys. My world has fallen apart and I am looking for answers right now to try and put it back together. (But not the same way!)
You seem like someone who is also looking for answers. If you find any, please let me know. God bless you,
taximom

-- posted by taximom04

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» motnam - Re: Re: Does RET help abuse victim 'deal' with narcissist?

In response to message posted by taximom04:

Hi taximom,
Thanks for your response. I've learned from Sam Vaknin's book, 'Narcissism Revisited, Malignant Self Love' and it helps to get on his email list to receive related info about malignant N (narcissism):

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/narcissist...

It takes a while to unravel and make sense of a relationship with an N.
If your N is verbally or emotionally abusive, it takes awhile to 'see' that you the 'victim' aren't causing the abuse. The anger is INSIDE the N. And it's there ALWAYS. That's the pathology. And the rest of the pathology is the angry abusive narcissist doesn't SEE him or herself in REALITY. They have a FALSE SELF ALL OF THE TIME! (They think they're PERFECT, that's their FALSE SELF.)
They see you as BAD and causing their inner ANGER and see themselves as the VICTIM of an underperforming or unappreciative spouse NO MATTER HOW HARD YOU TRY TO PLEASE THEM.
(My N, an unhappy angry & occasionally 'nice' woman created a 'walking on eggshells' environment by her need to control and dominate the conversation and most importantly EVERY aspect of MY behavior.)
I found the answer in my last five weeks of reading websites about emotional & verbal abuse(Dr. Irene) and Sam's book.
The ANSWER is END THE RELATIONSHIP. Why? BECAUSE IT WILL NEVER BE DIFFERENT! Because no matter how charming in the short run, in the long run the (malignant abusive) narcissist is... a (malignant abusive) narcissist 24 hours a day, seven days a week, 12 months a year, etc. Because it's a deeply ingrained somewhat mysterious PERSONALITY DISORDER that involves DENIAL by the N, there's NO CURE and the N remains abusive.
There may be 'nice' times when the N is trying to get his/her narcissistic supply back. We are the DRUG or supply to the N, that is, the support, affirmations, reverence, adoration, etc. they DEMAND. But when we fall short again and want to be ourselves and have our opinions...well, if we are not subservient or submissive enough. POW. We get abused(punished) again!
So ABSTINENCE from the abusive narcissist is the key to recovery from years of abuse and trauma from the unpleasantness of the disorder. But it's not easy because we have a fantasy that the N doesn't really mean it, or can get better, or will listen. From my experience, to think an N will be different and N-dipping(going back) is safe when done with caution and awareness is DELUDING ourselves and staying in DENIAL.
Taximom, you have to (like I did) go through a grieving process because of the 'loss' of your partner. That's the hard part. THE LOSS. THE LOSS OF LOVE. And the fact that the N didn't LOVE us they just needed our unquestioning
subserviance. It's sad, tragic but true. Reality about N's is depressing. There's no way around it but through it. We can't HELP them. WE tried. We are hurting ourselves to keep trying THE THINGS WE CANNOT CHANGE. I told my N she was a malignant Narcissist and she raged, asked me for my key and told me we should stop seeing each other for good because she said, 'Life is too short for this nonsense'. That's ONE THING we ended up agreeing on. LIFE IS TOO SHORT FOR THIS (N) NONSENSE!!!! Good luck taximom. -motnam

-- posted by motnam

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» ruby43 - It is a learning experience...

Hey motnam, sounds like you have done your homework...I have done some too. It amazes me how naive I was to what was happening in my marriage and how long it went on. I have read some great books on abusive behaviors and controlling behaviors. I am still struggling with whether or not it is considered "narcissistic" behavior...or what exactly constitutes it to be that...but I have learned that it stems from something much deeper and much further back in the abuser's childhood. I have had my eyes opened. What a weight off my shoulders, as a result. It is still frustrating and challenging, but at least I am beginning to heal. Keep up your words of encouragement to others. Signed, Ruby43.

-- posted by ruby43

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» ruby43 - Re: Re: Does RET help abuse victim 'deal' with narcissist?

In response to Re: Does RET help abuse victim 'deal' with narcissist? posted by taximom04:

taximom, I wanted to offer my support to you. I was married for 23 yrs, and kept dealing with it, trying to understand...and perhaps trying to "change" him. Our divorce is in progress, finally, something that should have happened a long time ago. He never initiated because somehow he was "entitled" and "all-knowing" that most of the issues were my fault...and I never initiated because somehow I felt I could be responsible, or that things would change. This last time, he hit me, leaving me with a black eye and fat lip...so I finally went to the authorities and started the ball rolling. It is not easy, and is very emotional...but I am not turning back. I don't know what your personal experience is, but just know that others are here, and if you want to correspond further...let me know. Hang in there, signed, Ruby43

-- posted by ruby43

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» samvak - Re: It is a learning experience...

In response to It is a learning experience... posted by ruby43:

Hi, everyone,

Only a qualified mental health diagnostician can determine whether someone
suffers from Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) and this, following lengthy tests and personal interviews.

These may be of help:

http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/1.ht...

http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/faq6...

http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/faq7...

http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/faq1...

http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/10.h...

http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/case...

http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/faq3...

http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/abus...

Links to Therapist Directories, Psychological Tests, NPD Resources, Support
Groups for narcissists and their victims, and Tutorials:

http://www.suite101.com/links.cfm/npd

Support Groups for victims (and one or two for narcissists):

http://dmoz.org/Health/Mental_Health/Dis...

Take care there!

Sam

-- posted by samvak

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» ruby43 - Re: Re: It is a learning experience...

In response to Re: It is a learning experience... posted by samvak:

Me again...since I do not and cannot know if my spouse falls into the NPD category, I just want to be able to at least try to understand a little more about his behavior. It's kinda' hard to just let go of 23 yrs. without at least being able to cope with my own curiosity. Thanks.

-- posted by ruby43

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» ruby43 - I'm back..still reading and learning...

I am finding myself drawn in to researching this subject - the "trust issue" somewhere in very young childhood, between the abuser and his mother. The independence they want, but still needing to be dependent...but somewhere that trust is not fulfilled. The ability to move forward into the next stage of development in a healthy way is impaired. There is for some reason an emotional dissociation either from the mother not meeting his needs appropriately, or his ability to separate the "good mother", who meets his needs, from the "bad mother", who ignores him, or neglects him, or doesn't come when he needs something. The two views of mother, come together as the child gets older, but if they do not...it lies dormant, until he gets into an intimate relationship, then it all comes out. I found this very interesting. It doesn't excuse what he did to me, but it does help me understand. I only wish he would be willing to do the same and deal with it, if that in fact is an issue. Knowing his mother and his family dynamics, I would not be surprised if this has a lot to do with his anger, and his need to control me. Supposedly I was the closest thing to that relationship he had, and he is trying, through me, to resolve or deal with past issues from childhood. Of course, I cannot say for sure, as I am not a Psychologist, and I do not by any means want to seem like I know what's going on...but I am intrigued. Last I heard from my lawyer,(we are in the middle of a divorce), he is still denying the domestic violence...even though I have police report and pictures. I have a hard time with this. One of the ways I am dealing with this, is by educating myself, so I can move on with my life. Thanks for taking interest in my posts. Hope I am not boring anyone.

-- posted by ruby43

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» samvak - Re: I'm back..still reading and learning...

In response to I'm back..still reading and learning... posted by ruby43:

Hi, Karoline,

These may be of interest:

http://www.narcissistic-abuse.com/faq5.h...

http://www.narcissistic-abuse.com/faq66....

http://www.narcissistic-abuse.com/case01...

http://www.narcissistic-abuse.com/faq64....

http://www.narcissistic-abuse.com/faq67....

http://www.narcissistic-abuse.com/journa...

http://www.narcissistic-abuse.com/faq22....

http://www.narcissistic-abuse.com/faq34....

http://samvak.tripod.com/abusefamily3.ht...

http://samvak.tripod.com/abusefamily4.ht...

Take care.

Sam

-- posted by samvak

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» tiny1065 - how to get over the roller coaster marriage

we are married for only five months, but he already physically hurt me several times, we came back to each other thosand times, trying to work this out. but i guess things will never be different and i couldn't change him at all. i just want to get over this and move on with a strong convictions and probably inspirational output from the people with the same way of life.

-- posted by tiny1065

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» ruby43 - Re: how to get over the roller coaster marriage

In response to how to get over the roller coaster marriage posted by tiny1065:

Hey...I know where you are, I have been there...unfortunately, I was in it for 23 yrs. You are absolutely right...you cannot change him...there are probably some unresolved issues from his past that he had way back in his unconscious until he got into an intimate relationship with you. If you separate and move on...perhaps he will be moved to seek counseling and then you may be able to talk to him again...but rather than trying to stick it out in hopes of him "realizing" the err of his ways, or becoming aware or repenting...you are still early in the relationship...best to do something now...rather than waiting. Hang in there, hon.

-- posted by ruby43

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