Father's Rights - Part 1

» J_Chatterbocks - Better no Father than an abusive one - I know

It is so true that the children's rights should come ahead of all else. I don't understand why the courts can't see this?

I just wanted to share that I have raised my children alone with no Father and they are turning out quite nicely, in spite of an emotionally abusive step-father. Their real Dad died when my daughter was 2 and I was 7 1/2 months pregnant with our son. I had never expected to be a single Mom but here I was with it by no choice of my own. So I raised them alone (with lots of love from grandparents, Aunt, and Uncles thank God) for eight years. I was so proud that my kids were just such normal kids and I had done a pretty darned good job. A very, very challenging job I might ad to raise kids alone.

Then I unwittingly married an abusive man. My children were eight and eleven years old then, well adjusted, happy, wonderfully normal. I had always thought I would walk through fire without hesitation for my kids, but the guilt is terrible that I did not protect them from him. I stayed for seven years. Even though he was present, I do not count him as a "Father" except in the vaguest sort of way. He took no interest in them, in fact, resented them deeply, and had almost no part in their lives except to shame them. They had been much better off, no comparison, with only Mom. As they are today - I have left him.

My daughter just turned 20 years old, and she told me just the other day that in her Sociology class at college there was heated discussion over single-parent families. She says she finally piped up and told all that her Mom raised her alone, and she knows no two parents could have done a better job. She tells me that when she has children, she wants to raise them just the way I did. My son, about to turn 17, is of course in that teenager phase plus me going through my recent divorce and some problems with depression - we have our moments. But he's thoughtful, intelligent and, once the trauma of relocation and readjustment were over, is well-adjusted. Recently he mentioned that he's thinking about becoming an RN, because he likes to help people and he likes "money". Is that great, or what?

As for the statistics on children of single parents getting into more trouble...I have to be suspicious that poverty and other reasons might be more the problem. We had one case of my daughter shoplifting when she was sixteen where she learned a tough lesson. But she is also an honor student and has won citizenship awards, Who's Who Among American High School students etc. My son has been in no trouble whatsoever. His scholastics are not great but he has healthy interests like Baseball which I went far out of my way to encourage. He stands up to bullies at school, never fights and isn't afraid to be himself. Both of my children speak out against injustice. They are both much more outgoing than me, I'm glad!! What does all of this say besides that I'm a normal, proud (maybe bragging a little bit) Mom?

I thank God every day that I did not have children with my second, abusive husband because I know he would be using them now in every way he could to "keep" his power over us. He has tried to manipulate them as it is during the divorce and since, trying to rewrite history as if they don't remember the way he treated them. I tried to talk to my daughter about it a little bit and she just broke in and said, "Mom, I'm not stupid. I know what he's doing". I can tell you there were some really bad times and SO much guilt for me, but if this is the kind of good self-esteem my children have somehow preserved, then maybe I have succeeded...ALL on my own, as a parent.

Never, ever doubt that one parent can be as good, or better, than two. My kids had plenty of healthy male role models; Grandads, Uncles, my platonic male friends, baseball coaches, male teachers (which I sometimes requested for my son) and so on. A Father in the home is not crucial to the well-being of a child. An abusive one is nothing but destructive, and, it's so true that what kids need the most is stability, one place to live and thrive. The children's needs should always come first. Stability, and as much peace and normalcy as possible.

-- posted by J_Chatterbocks

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» cosec00 - NO father is better than an abusive one.

NO father is better than an abusive one. I think that matter is rather self evident.

But as for the motivations of the Fathers Rights movement...

I wish it wasn't so dangerous to speak the truth. If one tries to expose what motivates these groups, one is immediately labeled a man-hater or worse.

Kerry--I deeply admire your courage to call a spade a spade.

I was involved with a man who was involved in the *mens movement*. He claimed to have been abused by his ex wife (both physically and emotionally). After a long friendship, I became romatically involved with him. And his nature came out. A very controlling, abusive and toxic man. I now doubt his abuse tale--if there was abuse it was most definitely mutual battery.

Anyway, after 10 years of divorce, he is still fighting like cats and dogs with his ex---and his entire crusade is blanketed by the mens movement paradigm. He's the victim in his mind--the victim of a vindictive ex-wife and a prejudice system. However, if he was really honest, its about him not wanting to pay child support. Afterall, having this burden he must maintain a job. And we all know how taxing and unfair that is! ;-)

Also, I think he used the system to maintaim some control over his ex. Her complete disregard of him really sent him over the edge. Finally, after a confrontation with his ex where he was publically humilated, he left town. One of the kids left with him. (so much for his story that his ex wouldn't let the kids go but was raising them miserably). I think he rather enjoyed the idea of being a single parent--embracing it a sorta glorified martyrhood. He was able to play the perfect martyr role (I am a single parent, so I cant do this and that, limited to this and that) and thereby get a lot of adulation and sympathy. Of course, when the job of parenting finally got serious and taxing, he threw his kid out and sent him packing back to the evil ex. Interesting choice, considering he painted her parenting skills akin to satan.

He no lives with just one of his kids and still sings the same song. "Poor me, look I have this kid(??? -- 19 yr. old son) to support (who works part-time?) and still have to pay child support for the ones that don't live with me.

I hate the mens movement and consider it a big farce more than reality. If men on a broad scope were actually interested in the raising of their children, their clamor would be deafening. The silence is telling. And those that scream in protest seem to limit their efforts to undermining child support laws. Again very telling as to their priorities.

And thats what I think those that participate in the mens movement are about--money. The rest, are silent. Why? Either, they actually give a damn about their kids, have a working relationship with the ex (although not always friendly I am sure),believe the mother can do it better than they can if she has sole custody or have just moved on in general.

-- posted by cosec00

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» Aidan007 - Re: Seeking cases of custody injustice/adult survivors of abuse

In response to adult survivors of abuse - Women being physically, mentally, emotionally abused has plagued my family for generations. My grandmother was emotionally and quite possibly physically abused by my grandfather - who also abused my mother.

At 17, my mother found herself in a hurry to get married and start her own family so that she might get out of that atmosphere soon. She literally jumped through hoops to graduate from highschool early just to get out of the house. She married my father shortly after and a year later became pregnant with my older brother. It is my understanding that it was not terribly long after they were married that the physical abuse ensued. A year and a half after my brother was born, she became pregnant with me - the abuse became worse and my father not only kicked her in the stomach when she was eight months pregnant, but drove off with her car leaving her stranded at home with a 2 year old and one on the way any time.

She divorced him and remarried a few years later. Apparently still unable to break the cycle, our new step-dad showed no remorse in his method of "discipline" until 10 years later when his own biological daughter had been born. The constant beatings, the belt lashings in place of "birth day spankings", the emotional abuse, the neglect is still difficult for me discuss even after years of counseling. Violence begets violence... I grew up as a child in fear and in pain.

My biological father was now awarded the role of "hero" in which he showed up once in a blue moon for his visitation. He seemed to be my "white knight" in that it was always exciting to get out of the house and away from my step-dad. However, the emotional scarring of the constant disappointment of a "half-assed" dad (for lack of a better term) did not rear its ugly head until I was quite a bit older.

The more aware I became of the situation and looking back - the angrier I became. Angry that I spent the majority of my childhood in an atmosphere where I would never be good enough. Angry that my biological father was an idiot. Angry that my mother couldn't stand up for herself or for me. Angry that my step-dad could not love me because I was not of his "blood".

Now, I'm all grown up - and am dealing with my own nightmares and abusers. In January I filed for my first restraining order against a boyfriend who had no problem assaulting me during a heated discussion. Should I live in fear every time I disagree with the men in my life? I'm convinced that this is not normal, I'm convinced that I am not the only one struggling to break the horrible cycle of abuse. It took my mother nearly 40+ years to end this cycle, I'm happy to report she is now happily married to a wonderful man who respects her and plays the part of step-dad to a "T" complete with "fatherly advice".

I hope more people understand ABUSE IS a cycle, what children see and accept as normal is inevitably what they will become. It is NURTURE. I agree that no father is better than an abusive father... and no abuse (physical, emotional, mental) is better or worse than the other.

I do not feel sorry for myself - or the life that I have had because I know that I am not alone, what saddens me most is that I know that I am not the last.

-- posted by Aidan007

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» ArkMan - Re: Re: Seeking cases of custody injustice/adult survivors of ab

In my case, I would have to admit that the abuse factor definately figures in, as far as my girlfriend goes. Her grandfather was abusive to the grandmother. Her father walked out on the five kids when she was a teen.

Her first husband kidnapped their daughter, and she did not see the daughter for years(and now grown up). Then having a boyfriend who used drugs and effectively destroyed most of her belongings, by torching the place while stoned(and lucky the house is still standing).

You top this off with the next boyfriend getting her pregnant, and then dumping her. Then I'm next in line, having to deal with all this "emotional baggage".

It's frustrating for me why she acts the way she does...but when you are used to abuse, it's understandable...she doesn't know how to react when she has a good guy on her side, for a change.

As for the deal on custody, some fathers are not interested in the child at all.....but i think these dads push for custody, just for the sake of making life hell for the mommy........

-- posted by ArkMan

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» ArkMan - Keeping Some Distance.......For Now

It appears that I am at a "turning point" with the girlfriend. She still has not really got over her anger/frustration/self esteem issues, and this relationship is not "going anywhere".

I do not mean specifically as a physical/sexual thing, but in a general sense. Quite often, the subject of conversation turns to the baby's father. She is obviously no longer in love with the guy; in fact, the opposite.

This has become a case of the "tail wagging the dog"; she is more concerned about getting back at the guy, as opposed to getting on with her life.

If and when we ever do get married, there will be essentially no need for him to send child support. She is more worrying about him getting off "scot free", than she is getting on with her life.

This has really been a "vicious circle" thing. She needs to "cut the cord" and get him out of her life. Of course, she needs the child support check, which often is late. Then she calls him up concerning this and starts screaming at him.

Which of course, makes both people upset. Then, as he is paying child support, he also feels that he is entitled to "something" for his money, so he will sometimes call, and give her a hard time.

Although she may have gone to counseling once or twice in recent months, it has been apparent that she is not continuing this on a regular basis.

Another fear of hers, besides letting the guy getting off without paying, is the use of anti-depressant medication. I, for one am a person that does not like to use any kind of medication, unless absolutely neccessary. And she does too.

But I think she should at least try to go on medication, at least for a short while. Besides the post-parentum syndrome, as well as being dumped, there are also some previous issues(see my posting on Father's rights).

I do have one co-worker that did go that route, and it is working.

Bottom line is, she needs to (1) go back to counseling and (2)move to a different town. She realizes this, and wants to but has not yet to
do anything. Her sister was telling me that she has been a big procrastinator all her life.

I cannot make the decision for her, and neither can her sister.

But at the same time, I do not want to deal with all the anger and whining. It is understandable to do so, but I feel that enough time has passed that she do something major really soon. It is really burning me out mentally.

I really do care for her, and she has expressed the fact she would like me to be around, as I would be a good "role model" for the son. But at the same time, she also has expressed that she can't honestly get anything going until she gets over this hurdle.

About the only thing I can do is keep a certain amount of distance from her. I will keep the door open, and be ready....but she needs to get onto herself and take some action.

-- posted by ArkMan

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» rollingstone78 - Reverse Side

I am a father with three kids by three different women. The first by an highschool sweatheart who turned worst enemy, the second was by a women that I had sympathy for and I wanted to show that love does exist, and third by my fiance and wife to be.

The first child's mother-we were young and in lust, I was an exceptional athelete in highschool with potential for stardom but when I did not make it to the big leagues her emotions changed for me.(Conditional Love). She left me in a mental wreck, I was raising my son from an infant-2yrs and then she took my son and within days(probably pre-meditated) she was in antoher relationship. Long story short I haven't seen my son in 5yrs. because of what. A law.

The second child is my first daughter, because the mother was found with an illegal substance in her system and the child's. Children Services were going to take my daughter and place her in foster care. I stepped in with no paternity and told the caseworker I am the father and my child isn't going anywhere but with me like a father should right. She was placed with me and I raised the child (inviting the mother to birthday parties and even asking her if she wanted to see her daughter, which she would respond I can't due to no home, no job, and no responsibility). Being that I was on assistance I had to place the mother on child support. Days after she received the letter that she had to take care of her daughter she showed up and took my daughter from me because there was never custody or paternity established. I haven't seen my daughter since May 11, 2005 because of what being a good father.

My point is it seems that the system works in favor of women and they know it...every man that is on child support is not a bad father but alot of women use the children against the father and use child support as a spiteful tool because they are the one's with issues. To me women use child support as a way to get some cash not to take care of their children, because if they cared about the kids they would allow the father to be the child's life if the father desired it.

"It takes a village to raise a child."

-- posted by rollingstone78

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» ttfn07675 - fathers rights no matter what

Iam still trying to get away from an abuser after all most five years. Father has pulled every stunt possible and using child as a pawn. Adding to it is that he married a women two years ago who has spent time in jail for child neglect and is a better abuser then he. So every weekend that me child goes to his house I worry . many incidents happen but still the lawyers and judge shove it down your throught "fathers rights" if given the choice better to be raised by one parent who truly is concerned about the child then forcing the continual harm and strategic assination of the other parent and the childs self esteem. All because children must have contact with "daddy" How many years of therapy will help regain the value of ones self, the damage that is being done each and every day this continues

-- posted by ttfn07675

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» BamaJane - Help for Divorcing Moms?

I filed for divorce in August of 2004, and since then lost my job and have been staying with my mom. My lawyer withdrew from my case, when I lost my job, and my 2 children that were living with me went to stay with their dad a week so I could get out to find a job and he has kept them since. the police and no one will help me. I don't have the money to hire an attorney right now, I been working on web sites to get my car fixed, and making ends meat as it is. It has been 6 months since I kept my kids overnight, and ITS KILLING ME.. I DONT KNOW WHERE I CAN GET HELP?? does anyone know? I have a Pendlite Order that was filed in April 2005 saying we are to share the kids, has a visitation schedule on it, but the police wouldn't help even with that in hand. I'm lost without my kids (boy 7 years old, and girl 4 years old) ANY ADVICE WOULD BE APPRECIATED! The kids have been losing toenails, fingernails, had poison ivy to the point I didn't recognize my own son, and now have some kind of skin thing from keeping insect bites all the time. Their father puts them outside the whole time he is home.. I guess. I am not allowed on the property where my kids are kept. Thank you for taking time to read this..

DonnZieglerebamajaneane@gmail.com

-- posted by BamaJane

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» andreadup - Re: Help for Divorcing Moms?

In response toyour article I want you to know I feel for you. I am only 22 and I have no children but I know what your going through must be hard. I actually joined this email to send you a GOOD LUCK message. I don't know if you believe in God but I'm catholic and I want you to know I will say an extra prayer for you tonight. I hope all goes well for you. Help for Divorcing Moms? posted by BamaJane:

-- posted by andreadup

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» bigtrucker1976 - re: help for divorcing moms

hey bamajane, just a word of advice -- the police can't help you... if your divorce is not finalized, then your husband legally has as much right to the kids as you do. Even a pendelite order is only a "reference" document. it would be wise for him to follow it, but he doesn't have to if he thinks he has good reason. not knowing the particulars of the case, i can't really determine who is in the right legally on this one. as far as the toenail thing, document it, girl! anything like that may play to your favor in court. basically, everything comes down to who represents better in front of the judge, so prepare yourself.

-- posted by bigtrucker1976

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