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This archived discussion is "read only". « Previous 1 2 Next » » Pinky102 - The Rules of Belief In response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Clarification posted by Binte:Binte asks, "Isn't it necessary though to believe in Christ as a saviour and part of the Trinity, in order to be a Christian?" Well, Binte, if you're to believe the Christian Fundamentalists, there's even more that is necessary. But, that's like asking a Wahabi what is necessary to be a Muslim. The fact of the matter about the "Trinity" is that it can be debated with very serious Christians on either side. Some people who claim Christianity as their own belief believe that God made them his chosen before the beginning of the creation. I'm sure there are a lot of nut boxes who claim to be Muslims as well. Follow the discussion at this link if you're interested: http://www.suite101.com/discussion.cfm/n... What do you think?
-- posted by Pinky102 » Binte - Re: The Rules of Belief In response to The Rules of Belief posted by Pinky102:Wow ... I've read perspectives I never knew existed, on that thread. All my life, I've assumed (my mistake) that you had to believe in what are said to be the basics of Christianity - the Trinity, the concept of Original Sin, the salvation, the Rapture too. So now I have a whole lot of other questions to ask, beginnign with: What then does a person need to accept in order to call him or herself a Christian? One of the things I found interesting in the thread was the statement by Rev. Richard about God not needing praise or worship. I agree with the statement itself - He doesn't 'need' it. I guess this comes up if you believe that He 'demands' it in the first place. The Qur'an says: "Whoever gives thanks, he does himself a favour. For surely, my Lord is needless, honourable." so for Muslims, worship and praise is something we do for ourselves, to learn how to accept Him out of choice and grow into giving unconditional love from our side too. I did find much I agreed with in the whole discussion - I guess it was only in the interpretations of those opinions that I differed. Thanks for pointing me in that direction! -- posted by Binte » Pinky102 - Re: Re: The Rules of Belief In response to Re: The Rules of Belief posted by Binte:Binte asks: "What then does a person need to accept in order to call him or herself a Christian?" According to who? If you ask one of the self appointed "Rulers of Christianity", then you need to swallow a litany of things as they come up from day to day. A "Christian" in that venue is always under the scrutiny of someone or other. Me? I believe it is entirely an individual thing between the Christian and God. About a hundred years ago there was a crisis in Christianity in America. It was brought about by the activities of a bunch of "Millenialists" who believed Jesus was going to return to Earth on various predicted dates. Each time these predicted dates came and moved into history, a new bunch of fanatics rose up and claimed a new date. After so many failures and when all the old "Iron War Horses of God" were dying off of old age, a new breed sprung up calling themselves, Fundamentalists. Their purpose was to show that the Bible was the inerrant and literal Word of God. This group gradually fell more and more into the teachings of the Old Testament and accepting its teachings which is the representation of Judaism in textual form. Of course, Judaism is a religion based on a foundation of legalism--the Laws of God. And, that's where the litany of tests comes into deciding who is a "Real" Christian and who isn't. We have a few of those "Real" Christians posting at the Religion and Spirituality site. They are very evangelistic and are constantly trying to win stars in their crown--expecting to win rewards of special status in Heaven. I'm sure you've their counterparts in the world of Islam. I believe our relationship with God is on an individual basis and that God reveals himself to us through his Holy Spirit. I believe that, if we seek God, he will reveal himself to us with his loving kindness which is forever. Some people agree with me; but, what I believe is not the popular and religious way.
I'll be happy to answer any question I can. -- posted by Pinky102 » Binte - Re: Re: Re: The Rules of Belief In response to Re: Re: The Rules of Belief posted by Pinky102:Okay, so then where does Jesus come into this? As in, I have heard of the Fundamentalist version - I think most of the Christians here are of that group. They do believe in the Bible as the inspired words of God, they accept all the concepts I mentioned before and they definitely don't question anything of their belief. But when you're speaking from your point of view or from the point of view of the non-Fundamental Christian, how do you define the difference between yourself and any other faith? (apart from the fact that you don't accept the fundamental beliefs of that other faith) When you mention the Holy Spirit for example, is it as part of the 3in1 Godhead? (that's the term I heard on TBN - yes, we get it here too And what of the Old Testament and the New One, I gather you don't accept them as absolute holy texts? How then do you view their level of authenticity and do you think a divine text is important/necessary for mankind? Hope I've not been to questioning or blunt, but I'm really curious! -- posted by Binte » Pinky102 - It Has Been Complicated In response to Re: Re: Re: The Rules of Belief posted by Binte:It has been made complicated--that's for sure. Jesus is the Lord of my life and that may set me aside from other religions. To me, the Bible is a compilation of many religious experiences of a tribal people who were eventually conquered by the armies of Caesar. It can be seen as an "Inspired" book available to be used by the Holy Spirit. I believe the Holy Spirit is the spiritual force of God. I don't believe in the Trinity as it is presented by Evangelistic Fundamental Christianity. My understanding of the trinity is that Jesus was so at one with God that the spirit of their relationship came into being. I call that spirit the Holy Spirit. I experience that spirit in my relationship wiht God and I call that the Holy Spirit. That's what I mean by the Holy Spirit. Maybe someone else can put it more succinctly. I do not believe in the authenticity of any religious script as the literal Word of God. I do believe, however, that the recorded scriptures are very important to human society in that they give us something about which we can hold very important discussions. To be inspired means to be enthused in a sense. The Bible qualifies as an inspired book in my beliefs. But, I do not see it as the literal Word of God any more than Moby Dick. If you numbered your questions, I could address them more specifically. I think there is only one god--what difference could god's name make in our life? Sophia would be good enough for me. The seeds of religious tyranny are sprouting. -- posted by Pinky102 » Binte - Re: It Has Been Complicated In response to It Has Been Complicated posted by Pinky102:My understanding of the trinity is that Jesus was so at one with God that the spirit of their relationship came into being. a) Does this mean that Jesus was the first person to have such a relationship with God? b) What then is your view of people like Adam, Moses, Noah etc. In Islam they are considered prophets, but someone once told me that according to the Bible they were anointed men and not prophets - I still don't quite understand the difference within the Christian belief of the two. c) You mentioned that you don't accept any religious script as being a Divine word. How does that explain why God put us on earth without any sort of guidance as to what He expects or wants from us. d) Do you believe in the Biblical version of how creation originated? The six days of creation and and the seventh of rest and the story of Adam and Eve? e) I've never asked this of a Christian - fundamental or not - so i'd appreciate it if you would explain both points of view. What happens after death? Is the process of death described in the Christian faith, and what happens after it? What about aspects of judgement, end of the world and heaven/hell? I know it's a broad, broad area but just a brief outline Thanks. -- posted by Binte » Pinky102 - Re: Re: It Has Been Complicated In response to Re: It Has Been Complicated posted by Binte:"a) Does this mean that Jesus was the first person to have such a relationship with God?" I don't think that is the case; but, he certainly was the first one of such notariety. "b) What then is your view of people like Adam, Moses, Noah etc. In Islam they are considered prophets, but someone once told me that according to the Bible they were anointed men and not prophets - I still don't quite understand the difference within the Christian belief of the two.", I don't have a "pat" answer to this question. I see them as persons the stories of whom teach us important lessons about life itself. "c) You mentioned that you don't accept any religious script as being a Divine word. How does that explain why God put us on earth without any sort of guidance as to what He expects or wants from us." In a sense, everything is divine. I don't think we can find an answer to the question you've raised about meaning and purpose of our experience here on earth. My best guess is that we're here to share in the creation and to learn what it means to be a being with the ability to create and share our existence with each other. "d) Do you believe in the Biblical version of how creation originated? The six days of creation and and the seventh of rest and the story of Adam and Eve? No; but, these stories are loaded in food for thought. "e) I've never asked this of a Christian - fundamental or not - so i'd appreciate it if you would explain both points of view. What happens after death? Is the process of death described in the Christian faith, and what happens after it? What about aspects of judgement, end of the world and heaven/hell? I know it's a broad" I don't believe anyone knows the answer to that question. I guess I could discuss it with you. These are the things that are being unfolded to us as we go through our own experience of life. And, our ideas are in flux. Who can possibly know the answer? -- posted by Pinky102 » Binte - Re: Re: Re: It Has Been Complicated In response to Re: Re: It Has Been Complicated posted by Pinky102:I think I understand where you stand better now. Would I be right in saying that you are willing to judge material presented by any faith on the basis of how much sense it makes to you? I agree that everyone chooses their own path towards Truth. It's such a personal journey that the only thing we can do is share our experiences with each other, not really demand that others abandon their choice for ours. The reason why I asked about death and judgement is because in Islam we have it all defined - the entire process between death and the Day of Judgement which is part of our belief. However, when talking to Christians, I've always heard of Armageddon and the rapture, but things are vague regarding the time between death and then. It's interesting to know the differences and pleasant to realise the similarities! -- posted by Binte » Pinky102 - Re: Re: Re: Re: It Has Been Complicated In response to Re: Re: Re: It Has Been Complicated posted by Binte:"Would I be right in saying that you are willing to judge material presented by any faith on the basis of how much sense it makes to you?" Yes, that and any proof they can provide. Christianity is sharply divided and ranging from Universalism to the strictist of Calvinist beliefs. Calvinism teaches that God, in his justice, selected specific persons to be saved and to join him in eternity while all others are lost or condemned. Whereas Universalism teaches that all human beings are saved by the sacrifice paid by Jesus if they know it or not. And, you can find everything in between. Christianity, like other religions, is going through a major change toward a more liberal belief system. The next hundred years or so will be a little rough on the traditionalists. Maybe there will be a meeting of the minds of the four major religions, Christianity, Hinduism, Judaism and Muslimism? Something better for humanity might be the result. What do you think? Any possibilities? -- posted by Pinky102 » Binte - Definitely Possible! In response to Re: Re: Re: Re: It Has Been Complicated posted by Pinky102:Possibilities? plenty I think it isn't farfetched to think that should there come a time when the followers of each faith understand the aim of any religion or code is to create peace not disrupt it, then Muslims, Jews, Christians, Hindus and anyone else would be able to live with each other in harmony. Our problem comes up with the need to impose our beliefs on others. Like you said, faith and belief is a personal relationship between an individual and God. There is no doubt that followers of a faith think that their religion is the best way to reach Him -that's natural. As long as they understand that it is the right of others to decide for themselves whether that way is best for them too, there should be no problems. I wish more Muslims would remember that the Qur'an clearly states: "There is no compulsion in religion..." (Chapter 2: Verse 256) -- posted by Binte « Previous 1 2 Next » Please follow the guidelines set forth in the Suite101 Posting Etiquette when adding to the discussion. |
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