Gosh? You Mean the Government May Have Lied to US?

» rick_francona - Some thoughts on your opinions

Glenn,

Very thought provoking. I had a unique vantage point to view most of the events of which you write. I served as General Schwarzkopf's Arabic language interpreter and advisor on Iraq - I was selected for that position since I had served as a liaison officer to the Iraqi armed forces during our assistance operations to them in 1988, the last year of the Iran-Iraq War.

To say that "General McCaffrey ordered the slaughter of retreating Iraqi troops does not seem implausible" is misleading. McCaffrey would never have ordered the "slaughter" of retreating Iraqis. He was noted for his aggressive tactics and may have pushed the envelope, but my reading of the situation reports that day indicated that the Iraqis were trying to move tanks north and eventually across the Euphrates river. The rules of engagement were that Iraqi troops could go north, but could not take their armor/artillery/APCs with them. Attempts to move that equipment was to be stopped, with force if necessary. The group that the 24th Mech engaged that day were trying to move their tanks north; they fired on the Americans when the Americans tried to stop them, and were engaged. Did McCaffrey's troops overreact? We may never know, for exactly the reasons you cite. The military investigation will not get to the truth - after all, McCaffrey is now part of the Clinton team.

"After all, our mission was to kill the enemy" is a bit out of context. The mission was to liberate Kuwait and destroy enough of Iraq's military that it could not threaten its neighbors, yet retain enough capability to defend itself against Iran, still smarting from the losses inflicted in 1988.

"Many times the initial problem is overstated coupled with assurances that we have no intention of involvement. The next step engages American logistical and technical support and before you can say 'New World order' we are fully involved." YES. Lebanon, Somalia, Haiti, Bosnia, Kosovo....

"D.O.D. jargon translated out to mean most bombs missed their targets." I think you will find that the accuracy of the aerial bombing was the highest in history. The studies, government and private sector, US and foreign, all bear that out.

"...he glowing reports on Patriot missile performance during and after the Gulf War" were, as you point out, incorrect. Your take on the whole Patriot thing, including the thought that the leaders were unaware of the inaccuracy of their statements is right on the money. That said, I have to tell you - having been through about 30 SCUD attacks in Baghdad in 1988 and over 40 in Riyadh in 1991 - that it was better in Riyadh when we at least thought that the Patriots were working well.

Did General McCaffrey order the necessary “turkey shoot” to be perpetrated on withdrawing Iraqi troops? Did Ambassador Glaspie present the impression that the United States would take no action in a settlement of the Kuwait-Iraq dispute? Did the Patriots perform as reported? I do not know.

I do. The answers are No, No, and No.

Does the American public care? Tough one. One hopes that they do, but it just doesn't seem that they do.

Great issues - keep it up.

-- posted by rick_francona

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» Masquerade - Does the Public care?

I have to say, that from my perspective, the "Gosh, the government lied to us" line is a little old and tired. People, especially young people who have grown up on a steady diet of X-files and even British shows like "Yes Minister" expect that the government DOES lie to them. It's not assumed that the government tells the truth anymore, it's is assumed that instead there is always a conspiracy or a cover up and the big bad government is always behind it. Perhaps thus the coining of the phrase"X Files Generation". To look to the broader public, I think people stopped believing that their governments told the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth after Nixon. And of course Mr Clinton is a shining pinnacle of effervescent truthfulness, I mean, he didn't inhale now did he?

My take on the no-one cares is this. The people who are graduating from universities now were 12 or 13 when the Gulf war took place. Most people don't even tend to REMEMBER world events that took place when they were 13, especially not ones that were so highly televised that it seemed like an odd long running movie, not something real. Not only that, but the current wave of university enrollments were 8 or 9 at the time, so the trend is exacerbated. I know it's an obvious statement, but it is one I think most people who complain about the government and people caring tend to forget.
People don't remember more than they don't care.
People who want to care have to wade through reams of information and deal with bias which is not readily obvious, particularly if it takes the form of personal bias on the part of those in positions of authority or influence. The arena is something in which people talk and act as if students or the young know what happened, possibly because it doesn't SEEM that long ago, but it is approaching ten years and people are not realising that others simply DO NOT know.

Before assuming that the public don't care, perhaps one should find out if they know in the first place.

-- posted by Masquerade

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