IS THERE A PRESIDENT IN THE HOUSE? (PART X)

» jerrib - Now that quote

from Johnson is one I've never heard before, John!

Have to say I tend toward being a Democrat, but I have nothing but good to say about senior and junior Bush.

Thanks for the view.

And belated thanks for the Happy Halloween wishes!

-- posted by jerrib

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» Mugwump53 - Re: Excellent series

In response to message posted by BuckyRea:

Thanks, Bucky. This series turned out quite different from what I imagined. You are (as always) quite correct about seeing their Presidency in terms of their Congressional service being very interesting. It certainly was to me as I researched this.

Thanks also for the free editor services. I always appreciate such help.

-- posted by Mugwump53

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» Mugwump53 - Re: Great Series!

In response to message posted by Tina_Coruth:

I agree, Tina. He had quite an impressive career, and brought a great deal of experience, espeically in foreign affairs, with him to the White House. That may be why he did so well in foreign policy matters.

Bush (#41) surprised me more than any other President as I researched this series. There was more I did not know about him than any of the other Presidents, espceially the part about him being a Republican from a conservative southern district voting and speaking in favor of civil rights!

-- posted by Mugwump53

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» Mugwump53 - Re: Now that quote

In response to message posted by jerrib:

Actually, Jerri, I had heard the quote before, but I thought it was made more publicly. I did not realize it was in a private conversation. Of course, knowing LBJ, he probably used the coloful expression more than once.

Your description of your feelings are much like mine. I liked (adn voted for) Bush the Elder. I am among those that rate bush the Younger high, especially in his handling of things since 9-11-01.

Thanks for your comments. Always glad to have you drop by here.

-- posted by Mugwump53

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» BuckyRea - Re: Poppy

The senior Bush has evolved significantly over the years--or perhaps hasn't, while the world changed around him. His personality and its sundry quirks have been on display in my hometown for as long as I've been aware of politics. For the most telling account of GHWB, I still refer to Jerry Ford's description of him as the sort of guy who'll be joking with you at a backyard party one minute and then stiff-arm you into the swimming pool the next--a truly merciless competitor.

In his chosen profession, of course, he's hardly alone. The sort of contortions in one's personal character that are required in order to be successful in high public office would be another interesting field of study for this site. Not that I'm trying to give you homework, Coop.

-- posted by BuckyRea

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» Brian Tubbs - Bush & Civil Rights

In response to message posted by Mugwump53:

Behind again, I know. :-) Great series, John.

I wanted to add my two cents on this discussion by seizing on one of your comments, namely your remark that you were surprised by a "Republican from a conservative southern district voting and speaking in favor of civil rights!"

In reality, and I'm sure you know this, the Republican Party has a history of strong support for civil rights. Bush comes from that traditional Republican school. Unfortunately, with the Goldwater candidacy of 1964 which appealed to states' rights and the Nixon Administration's embracing of much of the southern states' rights positions after that, the GOP took a detour from its finer traditions on that issue.
(By that, I mean no disrespect to Goldwater who was personally very much committed to states' rights, but the political realignment that he presided over reshaped the Republican Party).

-- posted by Brian Tubbs

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» Mugwump53 - Re: Bush & Civil Rights

In response to message posted by BrianTubbs:

Hi, Brian. Thanks for your input on the Republican Party. While you are correct to point out that it has a long history of civil rights advocacy, there are some less than stellar moments.

Everyone thinks of Republicans supporting the freed slaves and working for civil rights for all blacks after the Civil War. I recall reading that while Republicans were enacting civil rights laws in the south, they were doing considerably less in the north. In at least one northern state after the Civil War, it was illegal for blacks to move into the state. Others had restrictive laws on black ownership of property or political rights. Fortunately, that kind of thing didn't last long.

Still, the Republican Party, despite some unfortunate deviations by a few, began the national civil rights movement. Unfortunately, the states' rights philosophy of the Republican Party inevitably comes into conflict with any federal program of civil rights.

This states' rights vs. civil rights conflict had led the Republican party away from civil rights by the time Bush (the Elder) made that speech in Texas. I do not say this to take anything away from the Republican party, quite the opposite. I give Bush all the more credit for making a speech that went against the stand of his national party, and against the views of the majority of his district. That is the kind of political and moral courage we have been discussing in the thread on John Adams. It shows a side of Bush for which he is not often given credit.

I agree with you that Barry Goldwater had a strong personal belief in states' rights, and his stand against civil rights legislation was not a result of racial bigotry on his part. I do not know how much of a reshaping he presided over. their was already a very strong conservative wing in the Republican Party. That is what got Goldwater the nomination. The old chicken-or-the-egg-question: Did Barry Goldwater create the conservative majority in the GOP, of did the conservative majority in the GOP win the nomination for Goldwater? At any rate, after the landslide loss in 1964, the conservatives lost control of the party. Nixon was not the most conservative candidate in 1968, and was portrayed as a moderate (as compared to other Republicans).

Thanks for your interesting comments. This, too, seems a discussion worth continuing.

-- posted by Mugwump53

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» BuckyRea - Goldwater and leadership

Mugwump53 writes:

Did Barry Goldwater create the conservative majority in the GOP, of did the conservative majority in the GOP win the nomination for Goldwater?

While a potential leader has to be suited to the people he's trying to lead, I think most effective leaders such as Goldwater have to be viewed as more than just the guy marching in the front of the band. A leader leads and what she (or even "he") does with the responsibility of the vanguard says every about where the groups goes. The group takes its cues and defines the boundaries of permissible group behavior from the people we have trusted with that responsibility whether we voted for him or not.

It's no accident that there was an upsurge in membership and activityin the KKK, including lynchings, during and just after the Wilson administration. There is no doubt that Wilson himself disliked the Klan, but under his leadership the federal government began to backpedal on half a century of desegregation and advocacy of civil rights. People within the general populace reacted to this by accepting marginally more vigorous expressions of existing racial prejudices and in little increments the sheets began to creep out of the closets.

As a counterpoint, imagine what would have happened had, say, President Bush (the current one) not spoken out frequently against anti-Islamic prejudice last year. He's endured ridicule from some conservative commentators for referring to Islam as a "peaceful religion." They were able to point to all sorts of quotes in the Quran that dispute this generalization.

But this sort of comment from the president sets a tone, draws a line in the sand, gives a little boost to the people who want to preach tolerance. It creates an artificial barrier to people of less noble sentiments, makes it marginally less acceptable for people to encourage each other to act on their violent impulses. Given far less provocation there were many more attacks against Muslims and Arab-Americans during both the Iranian hostage crisis and Desert Storm. This is not to dismiss the wrongs done with what attacks have occurred, but their rarity is something of a benchmark in our history and ought to be noted. The difference in part is a demonstration of why leadership matters.

-- posted by BuckyRea

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» Brian Tubbs - Moderates v. Conservatives in the GOP

In response to message posted by Mugwump53:

You're absolutely right about Nixon not being the most conservative candidate in 1968, but two factors worked in his favor. First, the conservative movement, with Goldwater at the helm, had been handed their lunch at the polls in 1964. They were on the ropes and thus not in a position to dictate another nominee in 1968.

Secondly, Nixon was satisfactory to the conservative movement for three reasons: 1) He was viewed as more conservative than Ike while serving as the General's Vice-President, 2) His virulent anti-communist credentials obscured some of his other more liberal views and defined him as a hero to the Right, and 3) He appealed to the Wallace South with his pro-states' rights rhetoric.

Ironically enough, Nixon took the Republican Party even further from its civil rights roots than Goldwater did in 1964.

I must also agree with Bucky that Goldwater was indispensable to the conservative takeover of the Republican Party in 1964. While Goldwater himself didn't ride that takeover wave to victory, a popular former actor and General Electric spokesman who campaigned for Goldwater, eventually did.

-- posted by Brian Tubbs

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» Mugwump53 - Re: Moderates v. Conservatives in the GOP

In response to message posted by BrianTubbs:

Hi, Brian. Sorry to take so long to respond. I have been a little under the weather the past couple of weeks.

I agree with you evaluation of the situation in 1968. You sum up Nixon's candidacy very concisely.

I also agree with you and Bucky about Goldwater being indispensable to the conservative movement in 1964. Still, I think the movement had been growing before Goldwater. I think Goldwater gave the movement its much needed focus.

The movement, as you pointed out, needed Ronald Reagan to reach the heights of victory.

Thanks for sharing your insights. As always, they were right on the mark.

-- posted by Mugwump53

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