JULIA DENT GRANT: &quot;FAIR, FAT, AND FORTY&quot; PART I

Top 4. Apr 13, 2001 9:57 AM

» Mugwump53 - Political Influence

Hi, Tina. Thanks for dropping by. I am always happy to hear your comments.

You are correct in assuming that, given the times, Julia had very little influence on Grant's political decisions. She knew little of politics and did not care to know. She did influence Grant on personnel issues, however. The American minister to a European nation was recalled because he had snubbed Mrs. Grant many years earlier. She also played a key part in saving several of Grant's advisors who did not necessarily deserve saving.

All in all, a fascinating woman that is surprisingly little remembered.

-- posted by Mugwump53

Top 5. Jul 12, 2002 4:26 AM

» FortBrooke1824 - Wish you have included the story about Mrs. Lincoln

Hi John another super article. I wish you would have put in the story about Mary Todd and Julia meeting on the ship at Crown Point i think. It was in March of 65 or April my memory is going. LOL Anyway when Mary Todd walks up to Julia, Mary is furious, words to the effect how dare you not stand up for the 1st lady! This may have been the two's first meeting. Julia excuses herself and Mary Todd says something like "you act like your the first lady already." Well a few weeks later the Grants received an invitation from the Lincoln's to Fords theater. Julia will have nothing to do with Mary Todd and she tells Grant this to his face. Thus probably saving the life of Grant as Booth was hoping to see him at the theater also.

-- posted by FortBrooke1824

Top 6. Jul 14, 2002 7:17 PM

» Mugwump53 - Re: Wish you have included the story about Mrs. Lincoln

In response to message posted by FortBrooke1824:

I have never heard the story about Julia Grant not standing for Mary Lincoln, although Mary's outbursts at generals wives have been documented. I would love to know the source of that story so I could read more about it.

I have often wondered what would have happened had Grant gone to the theater that night. I don't think he would have been kiled, as the officer who replaced him was not, and was only wounded because he tried to attack Booth who had a knife as well as a derringer.

-- posted by Mugwump53

Top 7. Jul 16, 2002 1:41 PM

» FortBrooke1824 - let me check and see where i read about it

I think you were referring to Major Rathbone who was cut with a knife from Booth.
Let me check and verify this and i will get back to you and reveal my sources.
As you know Booth being an actor was very familiar with Ford's Theater. Booth also knew in advance that Grant would not be attending. From my understanding Booth was somewhat upset that Grant would not be joining Lincoln at the Theater, as he had also planned on killing him. These events took place quickly but so did the gossip in Washington city.

-- posted by FortBrooke1824

Top 8. Jul 16, 2002 4:03 PM

» Mugwump53 - Re: let me check and see where i read about it

In response to message posted by FortBrooke1824:

Yes, I knew who the officer was. I did not know that Booth knew Grant was supposed to attend, or that he was planning to kill Grant. I always thought his target was just Lincoln, and that the Lincoln's plans changed so much that day, that even Booth thought at first they were going to a different theater. Please check that out and let us know. I would be interested.

-- posted by Mugwump53

Top 9. Jul 16, 2002 4:29 PM

» FortBrooke1824 - Found it, i was hoping that i was not losing my mind

Hi John, Ever try and remember where you saw or read something. It's hard lol. I was able to verify the comments of Mary Todd to Julia Grant at City Point in March of 65. I found this on AOL and could not bring it up on yahoo however. Under AOL search i entered Mary Todd Lincoln meets Julia Grant. At the very bottom of the first page i found this title. "Lincoln,Mary Todd-US Civil War."-supplies a profile of the first lady from Kentucky whose spending sprees and emotional outbursts put a strain on her marriage to Abraham Lincoln.
In this article John both Mary Todd and Julia are on a ship. When Mary Todd enters the room Julia Grant is sitting down. Mary i am paraphrasing again "How dare you not stand up when a first lady enters the room." This will verify what i had said. This was not the first time the two had met and words to the effect by Mary Todd "I bet you can not wait until you get into the White House" are also in this article. In Grants Memories he simply says that he declined to go with the president as he and Julia would be going to Burlington to visit their children.
In my opinion Grant was not going to decline Lincolns invite by saying my wife does not like your wife. He will just give another excuse. ie visiting children. If i would have been Julia and Mary Todd had said those remarks to me, there would be no way i would volunteer to be around her company.ie Fords theater. I will have to read in between the lines but i think Julia made her husband aware of this.
If you like John, i will go to the library and find written information on this subject rather than Internet sources. I will answer Booths post within the hour.

-- posted by FortBrooke1824

Top 10. Jul 16, 2002 5:15 PM

» FortBrooke1824 - you are right Mr. Cooper

You are right Mr. Cooper about the last minute plans of Lincoln on his assassination day of April 14th. In fact Booth will not learn of Lincolns plan until he talks to a fellow actor. Under the search Lincoln assassination i found a really neat site one that also had John Wilkes Booth diary and hour per hour accounts of Booths movements and actions. It is interesting to note that according to Booth he passed Grant's carriage that day. Booth who had been again outraged on Lincolns speech on equal rights decided at that moment to kill Lincoln. While i do contend that Booths sole target was Lincoln had Grant been present Booth had enough time to include him in his plans. ie Booth had at least two different talks with his confederates during the day of April 14th. I did not find reference to this at this site, but will during the week try and find where i found that information, regarding Booths desire to kill Grant.
I believe that i said in the post before last that Julia Grant had told Grant to his face that she did not want to go to Ford's theater. This was not a fact nor a reference but only my reading in between the lines after being insulted by Mary Todd.

-- posted by FortBrooke1824

Top 11. Jul 16, 2002 7:38 PM

» Mugwump53 - Re: you are right Mr. Cooper

In response to message posted by FortBrooke1824:

I agree that the reason Grant did not attend FOrd's was because his wife Julia didn't want to. That is well known. I just hadn't heard that one of the incidents was over Julia not standing up for Mary.

With Booth having one pistol and one kniofe, I don't think Grant would have been in any more danger than Major Rathbone was.

Thanks again.

-- posted by Mugwump53

Top 12. Jul 16, 2002 8:00 PM

» FortBrooke1824 - I agree with you on this point

I do not think that Julia met to spite Mary Todd by not standing. As was stated they were both on a ship at the time. Maybe Julia was sea-sick or just did not stand up quickly enough for Mary Todd. I think i can safely say that Julia had no plans on insulting the first lady as that was not her style.
I would agree with you about Grants life not being in danger at Ford's Theater had Booth only had a single shot derringer of 44 caliber type, and a bowie knife in his pants. What i would suggest is had Booth known of Grant's attendance at Fords Theater he would have made appointed plans to carry out two assassination attempts. ie a revolver or another confederate to help him. However i do think that Lincoln would have been his first and primary target. I will see if i can find some statements to back that up.

-- posted by FortBrooke1824