THE PRESIDENTIAL LINE OF SUCCESSION: WHO'S NEXT?
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- Mugwump53
- pete_prbell
- pete_prbell
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Brian Tubbs
- Mugwump53
- Mugwump53
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Brian Tubbs
- Mugwump53
- howardhouk
- Mugwump53
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» Mugwump53 - Re: What happens in an apocalypse
In response to message posted by pete_prbell:The succession law is worked out to many places down the list. I believe, but I am not sure, that after the cabinet officers, their 1st assistants come next in the same order.
Interesting question. Thanks for posting it. Maybe someone else is positive that he/she knows the answer.
-- posted by Mugwump53
» pete_prbell - Presidential Line of Succession
I believe you may be right, but having read the relevant Consitutional Clauses, the 25th Amendment, and the Presidential Succession Act 1947 and subsequent amendments due to Amendments to the Constitution, I have found no mention of further extension to the succession. Can anybody help?-- posted by pete_prbell
» pete_prbell - Presidential Line of Succession
Also what happens in the event of something similar to the Florida electoral screwup in 2000. If for whatever reason it is impossible to determine who has won the election of the Presidency (and hence the Vice Presidency) who will then become President. It is my understanding that the Speaker cannot accede to the office without Congress first going into session and him being elected, which requires a President to be in office.Further I believe that then the senior member of the Senate majority party, as Senate PrTemporere then becomes President. But, of course there are only two-thirds of the Senate, so he is the oldest member of the majority party. But what if there is no majority party, i.e. the Democrats and the Republicans are of equal numbers, and there is no elected VP to cast a deciding vote.
Therefore there is no SenPro-Temporepore, there is also no Cabinet because this must be appointed by the President. In this event, who is President?
-- posted by pete_prbell
»
Brian Tubbs
- Re: Presidential Line of Succession
According to the Constitution, if no candidate for President receives a majority of votes in the Electoral College, then the election goes to the U.S. House of Representatives.
A good trivia question would be how often this has occurred. I think I know, but am not sure.
I do know that the first time this happened was in 1800 when Thomas Jefferson tied with his running mate, Aaron Burr. This led to the 12th Amendment, which fixed the Electoral College to where a separate ballot is cast for President and then another for Vice President. This prevented a tie between running mates.
One of the more controversial episodes where this happened was in 1824, when Alexander Hamilton achieved a plurality of the vote in a 4-way presidential contest. But the election went to John Quincy Adams in the U.S. House of Representatives, once Henry Clay withdrew and gave his support to Adams. Jackson's supporters cried foul and never forgot this. Jackson won the presidency in his own right in 1828.
-- posted by Brian Tubbs
» Mugwump53 - Re: Presidential Line of Succession
In response to message posted by pete_prbell:As to who would become president if the Electoral College could not choose a president, the VP-elect would. You assume that if the Electoral College could not chhose a president, they could not choose a vice president. Interestingly enough, although that is what common sense would tell you, that has never yet been the case. (Common sense often has little or nothing to do with the American political system)
In each case (since the 12th Amendment) when the House has had to choose the president, the vice president was selected by a majority vote of the Electoral College. Also, when the Senate had to choose the vice president, the president was chosen by a majority vote of the Electoral College.
Still, if no president or vice president were chosen by the Electoral College, there would be no problem. Congress goes into session on January 3rd, and after choosing their officers, the first order of business after an election is to meet to count the electoral votes. So, there would be a duly chosen Speaker of the House and a duly chosen President Pro Tempore of the Senate.
There would still be a cabinet as well, since the outgoing cabinet would still be serving.
-- posted by Mugwump53
» Mugwump53 - Re: Re: Presidential Line of Succession
In response to message posted by BrianTubbs:Hi, Brian.
I can only assume you meant to type Andrew Jackson rather than Alexander Hamilton, since Hamilton was ineligible in 1824 for two important reasons. One was that as a foreign born person, he was not eligible to be president, and two, he had been dead for twenty years as he was killed in 1804 by Aaron Burr in a duel. {G}
Since the 12th Amendment, Congress has had to choose a president or vice president twice.
In 1824, as you described, the House chose 2nd place finisher J.Q. Adams (84 electoral votes) over Andrew Jackson (99 electoral votes) and William Crawford (41 electoral votes) Henry Clay, with 37 electoral votes was not eligible, and the House must choose from the top three candidates in the Electoral College.
John C. Calhoun had run as the Vice Presidential candidate on both Adams' and Jackson's tickets, and so had an absolute majority of electoral votes for Vice President.
In 1836, Democrat Martin Van Buren won a clear majority in the Electoral College. But his Vice Presdiential candidate, Richard Johnson, was so unpopular that many of the Electors declined to vote for him, and threw ther election of VP into the Senate. Although the Democratic-controlled Senate seriously considered selecting the Whig candidate, they eventually chose Johnson......and regretted it for the next four years. Johnson was so unpopular by the end of his term, that the Democratic convention refused to renominate him. They ajourned without nominating anyone, and Martin Van Buren became the only major party candidate to run without a running-mate. (He lost)
Check out my article on the Electoral College for more details.
http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/4996...
Thanks for the trivia question.
-- posted by Mugwump53
»
Brian Tubbs
- Re: Re: Re: Presidential Line of Succession
I definitely meant Jackson. That was an inexplicable error of communication between my brain and my fingers on the keyboard.
-- posted by Brian Tubbs
» howardhouk - Presidential Succession
Ok, here's an obscure question that has been a topic of discussion among my friends for awhile now.Assume a second-term president is on his way out, and elections have been held (with a clear winner selected). However, before the president-elect and VP-elect can be sworn into office, both die. Who becomes president? Would the sitting president continue in the job, or would we have another election, or would the runner-up in the general election become president, or would it go to the Speaker of the House? I've never seen this issue discussed and we're just curious if you have an opinion on it.
-- posted by howardhouk
» Mugwump53 - Re: Presidential Succession
In response to message posted by howardhouk:This is an interesting question that comes up now and then. It is a simple question, but the answer can be complicated. Here goes.
If the President-elect and VP-elect die between the November election and the meeting of the Electoral College, the winning party would select another candidate for each position and instruct their electors to vote for them. If the President-elect died between the November election and the meeting of the Elecotral College, the VP-elect would not automatically become the President-elect. The national committee of the winning party might select another candidate, leaving the VP-elect in his original position. In fact, this is probably what would happen in such a case.
If the President-elect and VP-elect die between the meeting of the Electoral College (the first week in Decemeber) and the meeting of Congress to count the electoral votes (the first week of January), all votes for them would be disqualified and not counted (the precedent for this being the election of 1872, when votes for the defeated candidate, Horace Greeley, who had died, were not counted). In that case, the Speaker of the U.S. House of Representqatives would become President for the entire term, and would select his VP according to the 25th Amendment.
Another article which may be helpful is "The Electoral College: How It Works" which can be found at:
http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/4996...
I hope I answered this to your satisfaction. If not, please let me know what areas I left unanswered, or where I may have raised other questions.
Thanks for this very interesting question.
-- posted by Mugwump53
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