"Asian Values": The Asian Abuse Excuse
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- SteveK
- NealK
- Gottlieb
- lingt
- Gottlieb
- pseudoerasmus
This archived discussion is "read only".
» SteveK - Excellent article, Jason. I look forward each week to getting y
Excellent article, Jason. I look forward eachweek to getting your inside view of what's
happening in Asia. (Are you the only Suite101
editor who is not based in Canada or the U.S.?)
I've never bought into those myths that
foreign cultures are "riddles wrapped inside
mysteries wrapped inside enigmas." The laws of
human nature, psychology, sociology, biology
and above all economics and political science
are the same
all over the world, just as the law of gravity
is the same all over the world. For people
to claim that there is an "Asian" or "American"
way of doing things is true only on a
superficial level. Different countries might
try different economic and social experiments,
but in the end they all succeed or fail
according to the same general principles.
What's happening in Asia is not especially
deep or mysterious. Dictatorships are denying
the rise of democracy, and sacrificing human
lives to obtain economic development. I don't
say this because Jason already mentions
it in his essay, but because it has been
tried over and over again in human history.
A recent example is Stalinist Russia. In the
1930s, Stalin imposed the Great Terror, which
ultimately cost the lives of 20 million of
his own countrymen. But the reason he did this
was to enact rapid economic development. In
1930, Russia was a backward peasant country.
Stalin began a program of forced collectivization
and industrialization, and by the time Hitler
invaded Russia in 1942,
Stalin had turned the country into an
industrialized giant that ultimately succeeded
in repelling the German invasion. It is a
law of political science that dictatorships
can only acheive rapid economic expansion only
at grave cost to human freedom and human
rights. (Unlike democracies, which can
achieve growth with positive incentives.)
Of course, I'm sure that some Asian would
claim that I'm merely seeing things from an
"American" point of view. :-)
Steve Kangas
-- posted by SteveK
» NealK - I'm sorry to say, but you're all wrong. Of course democracy isn
I'm sorry to say, but you're all wrong. Of course democracy isn't taking over Asia at the course any Americans would hope for. But we all must understand that democracy is a western ideal.Steps have already been taken to grant more freedom to the people of Asia. In Cambodia, punishments are now being inflicted upon the Khmer Rouge.
China is moving away from totalitarianism. Relations between North and South Korea are getting better. Democracy is moving along, but at a slow pace. But is democracy the right thing for Asian countries? Who is to say that Western philosophies are better than other philosophies? No one has the right to say that.
-- posted by NealK
» Gottlieb - Neal, the Asian people have the right to say whether democracy i
Neal, the Asian people have the right to say whether democracy is better for them or not. And as shown in South Korea, the Philippines, Thailand, and other nation sin Asia, when given the chance to be more democratic, the people gladly take it.I may not have the moral "right" to say that democracy is better than totalitarianism for Asian nations. But at least in a democracy, I have the legal right to say so. In Korea under Park, China under Mao, Cambodia under Pot, and many other examples, there could not even have been a debate.
Democracy may be a "western ideal," but that doesn't make it a bad one.
Jason Gottlieb
Politics -- East Asia...This week: Return of the Haze
My homepage
-- posted by Gottlieb
» lingt - I do agree with Neal. We can term it as the "modernization" or
I do agree with Neal. We can term it as the "modernization" or "westernization" of Asia, but either way, it will be considered as the transition/conformity of Asian culture to those of the Western world.However, I do believe that change must occur. Currently, there exists a serious flaw in the way things are done. Supression in the most fundamental state of affairs cannot be excused as a price for development. Steps must be made to ensure that these flaws are addressed to keep an equilibruim, or at least to close the margin between the the two. Human rights issues cannot be swept under the carpet simply because it is in the way of development.
However as a citizen of the a developing country, I have come to realise that these issues are not huge concerns for the majority of the public. We only know what we are told and the culture is such that we ming our own business and put peace above most else. Perhaps it is the fear of chaos. However, I am not saying this for everyone as it is just an observation.
-- posted by lingt
» Gottlieb - A note of some pride: this article was referenced in an edition
A note of some pride: this article was referenced in an edition of the Christian Science Monitor. The article, titled HREF="http://www.csmonitor.com/durable/1998/05/27/fp1s1-csm.htm">Cracking Asia's Cozy Ways, is an interesting discussion of this very issue.Jason Gottlieb
Politics -- East Asia...This week: The Cambodia Coup
My homepage
-- posted by Gottlieb
» pseudoerasmus - While I almost completely agree with Jason, I take issue with th
While I almost completely agree with Jason, I take issue with these remarks of Kangas's:What's happening in Asia is not especially deep or mysterious. Dictatorships are denying the rise of democracy, and sacrificing human lives to obtain economic development. I don't say this because Jason already mentions it in his essay, but because it has been tried over and over again in human history. A recent example is Stalinist Russia. In the 1930s, Stalin imposed the Great Terror, which ultimately cost the lives of 20 million of his own countrymen. But the reason he did this was to enact rapid economic development....It is a law of political science that dictatorships can only acheive rapid economic expansion only at grave cost to human freedom and human rights. (Unlike democracies, which can
achieve growth with positive incentives.)
What was the "grave human cost" exacted by Singapore, Hong Kong, Taiwan and Hong Kong, which either are today or were during the heyday of their economic development, non-democracies?
-- posted by pseudoerasmus
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