In A Quest for National Identity

» knightcat50 - Privacy?

Well...that blew me away. Of course we deserve privacy. Just because it doesn't exist anymore, doesn't mean we have to like it. It's a matter of choice, if you want to give it away, fine. Yes, we are all becoming accustomed to not having privacy, and next we'll get used to not having freedom either. But it really doesn't matter from now on, because our world has changed, and we have to change with it. So it is written, so shall it be...get used to it. There is nothing we can do about it, period. So what the hell are we fighting for?

-- posted by knightcat50

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» cliff_aliperti - In total agreement...

I just discussed this with some co-workers today. With all of the info the government already has on us, it would probably be more efficient to wrap it all up into one card anyway...it's not like they'll be learning anything they don't already know, it'll just all be at hand at once. I've got nothing to hide.

-- posted by cliff_aliperti

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» vemartin - Re: Privacy?

In response to message posted by knightcat50:

My article never suggested that we give up our privacy completely, indeed I would submit that every human has a right to privacy, however you have no expectation of privacy in a public setting. And that perhaps we should come to grips with the fact that September 11th DID change things. To suggest through sarcasm and arrogance that it didn’t cast you in the mold of what most of the world thinks about Americans and America, that we look down our collective noses at the rest of the world and that noting can touch us.

What will it take before you finally leave the valley of denial and stride onto the plains of acceptance: another building falling to the ground, or perhaps two, or three? How many is the magic number? How many people have to die before we come to understand that we do not live in a vacuum?

I love my freedoms as much as the next American believe me I do, but how can I exercise them, if I am living in constant fear of attack from terrorist, or worse dead? If I wanted to live in Israel, I’d emigrate. We need not drift to the far right, or far left of this issue in order to put into place a common sense set of laws that both protect us, and preserve our freedoms. Emotion will not get it done. Intelligent discourse and a trained eye upon the constitution will.

Vincent E. Martin
Contributing Editor
Politics & Minorities

-- posted by vemartin

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» tellmeonce - Re: Re: Privacy?

In response to message posted by vemartin:

Hi Vincent,
I really didn't get the impression you were being critized. But it is hard for someone to express their feelings, and emotions when it comes to their own turf, and pride in a their great nation. People of all nations, rich or poor, powerful or not. Feel the same way we do about their own culture, and beliefs. The have nots, would like to have what we have. Our rights, freedoms, and laws that protect even the weak, sick, poor, homeless, disabled, indigenous, helpless, people of color, gender,....oh I forgot...we are still working on some of those. We are not perfect either. We still have many wrongs to right. It hasn't been that long ago...we were fighting, and marching for equal rights, and protection. Aren't we still trying to get it balanced everyone? Just look at the last election. So all the ugly stuff must be unveiled, and brought out into the light. But we can't hide behind our flag, old glory, our songs, religion, laws with giant loop holes, or anything else, if we are going to accomplish this task. It's a painful cleansing process we are going thru.

Yes, we are lucky to live here, and to have been born here. I don't recall anyone saying you should move to Israel.

Afraid? Why sould we be afraid? Isn't that what they want. In fear we are weak. Are we promised a rose garden? Are we better than others who are also living in fear? No. This is a matter for the world to deal with, and we all must face it, and deal with it on a personal level.

If you look back on history, it has always been this way. When has a nation, or peoples ever been safe from dying or being overcome by an enemy? Never. This is the face of war, hate, and weapons of destruction. This is the nature of mankind, and his collective consciousness. The enemy is within our hearts, and minds. It is not out "there" somewhere. It is hiding in us all, and we become afraid when it raises it's ugly head. Fear sucks us into itself like an ugly monster.
We all die someday in some way....whether by the hands of our fellow man, or by natural causes of disease, or Mother Nature. We are never safe or promisd tomorrow. We exist in a world of cause, and effect, whether we like it or not. And we all have our own level of denial. Even you, and I. We just have to face it. The choices were made long before 9/11, all thru the decades. You are safe if you have nothing to fear.

I guess it depends on how you look at life, and death.
Why do we fear death so much. Isn't it a natural process...just as life is.
As the native american people would say, as they were being wiped out, it's a good day to die. So fear not, you will not go, till it is your time to go. Where is our faith in the plan? Do we not really have faith in HIS plan? Are we not a Nation Under God? Whose in control here? Or is what we say in pray just empty words? We claim to be of faith....where is it? Only the truth will set you free.

Please excuse my mistakes...I suffer from meniere's disease, lupus, ptsd, fibromyalgia, coronary artery disease, and ??? who knows what's next that will pop up. I think I have discovered a wll kept secret. If you like to investigate, and research...try this one.

http://www.nexusmagazine.com/mycoplasma....

I would be grateful if you could prove, or disprove this article....there are references. It is difficult for me with the meniere's disease, and all. I came accross this info while doing research on my new found diseases. Because of this disability, I have lost everything, and am a whisper from being homeless. I have even lost my future plans, my hopes and dreams. So please excuse my ramblings. But it's how I feel.
knightcat50 ~ my other name.

-- posted by tellmeonce

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» BuckyRea - Good, but sobering article

Vincent, I pretty much agree with your basic observation that our state and federal agencies already have an array of data on all of our private lives, and that increasing the efficiency of the use of that information is, on balance, clearly in the national interest. It's just a little shocking to see it put so directly. I particularly appreciate your "valley of denial" metaphor.

But I don't think we should lose sight of the basic reasons behind our caution in making government policing activities more efficient. Along with that efficiency, there will always be the danger of abuse. It is the nature of governmental regulation to trend toward using power to harass the individual. Some individuals, of course, need harassing. Others don't. And it is impossible to tell the difference between who does and doesn't deserve it from simple "profiling."

I like your idea of civil libertarians being involved with the sundry police agencies to ensure that increases in policing efficiency--which are obviously needed--do not lead to policing abuses. I seriously doubt that most law enforcement agencies will welcome their involvement. In the past our society has enjoyed a margin of safety from police abuse by the inefficiency of our federal, state, and local bureaucracies. In making our society safer from terrorists, we must sacrifice that margin of safety. This is the core of what Jefferson meant by "eternal vigilence" being the price of freedom.

I know we have to cross this street. I only hope we all remember to look both ways for oncoming dangers.

-- posted by BuckyRea

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