Help for a Newbie Gardner

» LadyKelien - Is there a such thing as a brown thumb?

My grandfather was a farmer. Now that he is retired he is a gardner. I believe the garden my great grandfather grew was part of the reason he lived to be nearly 102 years old. He died the winter after his first summer of not having a garden.

We never had a garden growing up. My mother always said that she killed house plants how could she grow a garden? Plus we were always living in the preachers house that the churchs my father preached for owned. When you have to ask permission to plant daffodils by the front walk its hard to plant a garden.

i do remember having a garden one year my grandfather came out to our home on top of Brock Mountain. This place was so rocky you couldnt find more than two inches of topsoil before you hit bolders. He set up a box garden for my mom. All we grew in it were tomatos and cucumbers. I tended it more than she did. She was to busy going to school and working with the ladies bible class to really have time. But, all I really remember was being grossed out when grandpa told me that he was using cow dung and top soil as the dirt for the garden box. Ok so I was all of 10 years old LOL

Now we have 111/2 achers of woods, with every creepy crawly thing you can think of along with crows, rabbits, mice, squirrls, raccons possums. You name it and I probably will have to shoo it out of the house at least once in a year because the kids left the front door open.

Trees grow out here beautifully or so you would think. I can take the acorns and toss them in places that need trees and they will grow. But the three apple trees we planted with the help of a friend who runs an orchard died before the summer was out. The plot I picked out for the garden that has both shade and plenty of sun nothing grows in. But, we have to watch the kids at halloween to make sure their pumpkin patch pumpkins dont just get thrown out the front door. THe one year that happened I had enough minature pumpkin plants to have sold pumpkins. My daughter dropped a package of tomato seeds by the front door on fall. THe next spring I had three tomato plants under the porch. THey produced without me ever touching them.

But, the ones in the back yard never do anything. Im seeing a pattern of if I dont plant it on purpose and I dont do anything to it we will have a bumper crop. But, when I start actually trying to have a garden it all falls apart.

My mother with her brown thumb now grows some of the most beautiful house plants I have ever seen. So I know that it isnt that the gene pool of my grandfathers family just missed us. no there is more to it than that we are missing something.

My children are now homeschooled. I want them to have a chance to understand nature through gardening. Maybe the garden should go in the front yard or what little of a front yard I have. The driveway takes up the entire length of the house and I might have two feet of space between the house and the drive. I know it has to be the soil we seem to ahve about three shades out here. Where I want to put my garden it is light brown, Where things grow by the front porch is somewhat darker but not as dark as the soil under the trees next to the creek.

Do I need to dig up some of that and transplant it back to where I want to garden? If so do I wait till spring and do it then or do I go ahead now and mix it in with the rocks and dirt I keep trying to turn into a garden?

I guess in truth I just want someone to tell me that even though their might be a gardening gene mother nature does the real work and all you have to do is pay attention in order to get things to grow.

this springs tomato plants kept growing up even though I broke the tops off. They flowered but only put out one very tiny tomato that never got any bigger. Maybe Im using the wrong seeds. grrrrrrrrrr. To bad my grandfather is to old to travel down here and give me a hands on lesson in gardening.

-- posted by LadyKelien

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» MadGardener - Re: Is there a such thing as a brown thumb?

In response to message posted by LadyKelien:

Yours is such a wonderful message to read, and I think, if I can guess from my own, somewhat limited experience, quite a common first gardening story. There are so many things that could be contributing to this cycle which you are observing. Several things could be at work here- from overworked or compressed soil- which would not be the case under the porch or in other less accessible areas where you are observing bounty to nutrient deficiencies of various sorts.

I guess there are a few ways to go about a new garden- one- check out my "Planning Your Vegetable Garden" article of March of this year - http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/1726... - for some basic tips on checking sunlight requirements and stuff.

Of course, I am not sure in what region that you live, but one of the most sure-fired ways that I have come across to jump start a garden is to use the method in the "Lasagne Gardening" book that I list on the side of my column. It doesn't take too much effort and I tried it with tomatoes the last two years with really great results. Basically it is building a compost pile and planting within the pile. In its most simple form- which is what I used - you start with what you have- be it grass or packed earth or whatever- and cover it will about 2" of wet newspaper, then a layer of 2" of peat, then layer that with brown matter such as straw, or hay, to about 6-8" then 2-4" of peat then 4-6" of compost/hummus, then 2-4" of peat, then a layer of grass clippings/green matter then another layer of peat then choppped leaves if you have then, and top it off with wood ash. I didn't have chopped leaves or quite as much straw/hay but it still worked wonders. Once you have this, and you can start this almost anytime, even right before the last frost/snow in your area, and let it "cook" over the winter, and then when you plant it will be really great.

You can check out the basic layers at - http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/08759696... - but I also recommend buying the book if you really get into it because it has crop specific suggestions which are great.

Once you have jump started your garden you will feel more able to survey the other areas that you want to garden and observe if any plants survive there, what exactly happened when they died- did they turn brown, or wilt, or just not start, stuff like that..... that will give you a better indication of what you are looking at. And with that you can even go to your local county extension to get more region specific help- for a list of county extensions you can follow this link - http://www.suite101.com/files/topics/172... - it doesn't list all the offices, but at the bottom you can find a link to the search page where many more are listed.

I hope this helps.

If you have more concerns please feel free to write back and I can try to help you. And if it isn't snowing or too heavy with frost in your area, now is a great time to put this together.

Let me know how it turns out for you too- I would love to hear about your results.

-MadGardener

-- posted by MadGardener

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» LadyKelien - Re: Re: Is there a such thing as a brown thumb?

In response to message posted by MadGardener:

Im in west central Arkansas, in the Quashta Mountain range. What grows out here are wild flowers that are sprinkled on top of the ground not actually planted and any tree that comes by way of production from a tree close to it. Weve had some bumper crops of acorns this year so our Oak trees are finally replacing themselves.

This is actually my mom and dads place. They bought it together about two years before they divorced. We moved in when mom moved out. Anyway their way of clearning off the land so that we could get a house out here faster was to use a buldozer to push down the trees. There is a huge pile of rotting trees now at the edge of the woods. The only thing I can figure out is that doing it that way took all of the top soil. On top of it we are in the center of a down hill slope. So all the rain water runs down off the hill and just keeps right on going which isnt good for top soil either. We do have a little bit of grass but its all bermuda and weeds. You know the stuff that will grow anywhere.

I liked your idea. But, we had our first real heavy frost last night its warmed up quite a bit tonight though. The low is only about 40 degrees tonight. Tomorrows low will be in the 50's but that is typical around here. You freeze to death on day then burn up the next.

i tried Miriacle grow, My uncle who has a flurshing garden suggested I was planting at the wrong moon cycle. I tried to adapt for that with no success. My mother before she left started a nice flower garden. Everything grows in it whether you want it to or not. I have herbs she planted that I dont have a clue as to what kind of herbs they are. They just keep regenerating year after year. I have plants that grow out here I have never even seen before. Polk plants love us. THey will grow anywhere. So will pumpkin from what I can tell. The problem is the best soil is above the ceptic tank line and I figured that wasnt a wise place to put a garden. There is also a lovely creek that runs through the woods just on the other side of where they piled up the dead trees. It comes around and flows off the land in front of the house. The second best part of the back yard, the one place we have actual grass growing always seems to be flooded so I think that is where the ceptic tank line drains. The Men blame it on the creek. But, the creek isnt that close. Of course if the trees are blocking the creek it very well could be the creek.

So either its gods country that doesnt want to grow a vegtable garden or its me LOL.... I will try and locate the books you mentioned and see what I can figure out.

-- posted by LadyKelien

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» MadGardener - Re: Re: Re: Is there a such thing as a brown thumb?

Well, I hope that your winter has not been too bad.

In reading your comments two things occur to me, well, three actually. First, you shouldn't be too hard on yourself. It appears that you have a very troublesome site on which to plant. This site would daunt many an ardent gardener when they set out, and especially never having put a garden together, it presents some challenges that are indeed quite intimidating. But, we must remeber that every problem, can be broken down and conquered in due time. It depends on the time that you want to spend.

Secondly, in terms of the slope or the garden area, perhaps a terraced bed system would work out for you. That would keep the soil from washing away and give the plants a solid base upon which to grow. These don't have to be elaborate. A few shovels here and there to flaten each level out and then some pieces of non-treated lumber or pavers or any material with which to build a wall will suffice to start off.

From here we address the soil condition, and if as you fear the topsoil was removed through the clearing method of your parents, then lasagne gardening will help you build soil without too much effort or cost. Basically what it calls for is to build a compost pile, layering with grass clippings, straw or hay, peat moss, and hummus. You can either "cook" this pile to give it a quick start by layering dark plastic over it, or you can just plant straight into it, which is what I have done.

Anyways, I hope that these suggestions will help out. And definately, if you can find a book on the "lasagne gardening" that will give you a good description of the technique used. This should help you get a good start and more success that what you might have thought to get.

Hang in there and you may be surprised how nature can overcome, with a little help, any differcult growing condition.

-- posted by MadGardener

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