Why Does God Allow Innocent People to Suffer?

Top 60. Oct 16, 2005 7:49 AM

» Dubh_Sidhe - Re: Re: Re: Re: why does god allow innocent people to suffer

In response to Re: Re: Re: why does god allow innocent people to suffer posted by TheJesusFreak:

No, this was not a lie, because they did die."

Remember that man is a trinity, and he would have to die in a threefold way. Adam did not die physically until over 900 years after the Fall, but he did die spiritually, the momemt he disobeyed God.

It was not God's original intention for man to die spiritually or physically. We are on probation, if you will. Yes, we have free will, and with privilege always comes responsibility. Man was given free will and as a consequence must be given a test to determine whether he will obey God or not. Every Dispensation from the Fall onward ends with a test. You see, when we accept the Bible's obvious Dispensations, the ending of the First Dispensation with the Fall makes perfectly good sense. The test was "eat or do not eat." Man chose wrongly, and received his punishment. (I am not suggesting to anyone here that it is required for them to accept Biblical Dispensationalism. It is not required for salvation or service).

But, God did not create sin. Since He is holy He could not create that which goes against His nature. 1 John 3:4 says that sin is lawlessness. God is the author of the Law and as such it reflects His perfect character. Summarily, it is impossible for Him to create anything that is in direct violation of the Law.

If God did not create sin, where did it come from?
Ah, the debate rages on, but this is what I believe, and please feel free to comment on it.

God created the conditions in which those who had been given free will were free to make their choice between obedience and disobedience to God.
This condition created by God was present when the angel Lucifer, with his free will, rebelled against God, wishing not to be like God, but to actually BE God. (Isaiah 14:12-15 and Ezekiel 28:13-15). What was the condition set for Lucifer?
I think the condition was that Lucifer sat close to the throne of God. Too close, so he wanted it!

Then Adam and Eve created without sin, chose to listen to the devil and in so doing sinned against God (Gen. 3). But it was NOT God who caused them to sin (James 1:13). Using their free wills each of them rebelled against God and sin entered the world (Romans 5:12). God allowed the condition to exist where sin was possible. WHY in the world would God do this? Well, I think it was out of Love, as I mentioned in a previous post to cleg.

God allows the condition where man is able to sin, but He is not responsible for what man does with the choice. Sin begain with Lucifer, then came into the world by way of Adam. Did God create sin? No.

-- posted by Dubh_Sidhe

Top 61. Oct 16, 2005 8:05 AM

» Dubh_Sidhe - Re: Re: Re: Re: why does god allow innocent people to suffer

In response to Re: Re: Re: why does god allow innocent people to suffer posted by _Boanerges_:

Thank you for that link, Wendell. I read it and it is certainly worth the time.

-- posted by Dubh_Sidhe

Top 62. Oct 16, 2005 11:46 AM

» _Boanerges_ - Did God Create Evil?

In response to Re: Re: Re: Re: why does god allow innocent people to suffer posted by Dubh_Sidhe:

Thanks, V... that was a conversation from way back when on the Suite... I thought it would be good to capture it instead of always repeating it smile ....

Your above responses are quite good, as they cover such deep theological ground, to which other towering figures have written on and have placed their works into volumes and volumes of books, in the effort to help explain and understand these most difficult and intriguing subjects. ...But alas... I find that you not only make good sense from the proper way to view these subjects, but also did so in a relatively short space!.. I took notes smile .... In fact, I think that when people get to the point of logically questioning these subjects, they have taken considerable thought into the things of God, such as cleg has shown with his questions to you.

Yet we know one truth.. God works from the heart (love) not from the head (logic) because it is the heart that needs to be converted, not the brain! Although, the renewing of our minds is helpful, it is only the way in which we 'need to walk' not the finality of such, but only a stepping stone.. Much like philosophy if you will.. But the mind is often in contrast to the heart, and these two are basically at odds with the other. Simply put, what we often 'think' as good to do, we often find that our heart says otherwise - a simple answer to a deep subject... (conscience now enters the picture).

The bible claims there are 2 mysteries..
1)The Mystery of God (Rev:10:7) 2) The mystery of iniquity (2Thess:2:7) I did an article on that some time ago.. Mystery, as explained in the bible actually has the meaning of; to reveal... not mystery as we think of in our modern English..

I am often called someone who knows all the answers.. I find this to be quite unfair because I have never claimed such.. But, I do claim that which is revealed to us, and to know those answers. I believe this is a reasonable service of all professing Christians. So, I really have no questions concerning God because He has revealed, that which we need to know, clearly and without confusion. Now then, I do have all sorts of questions to God about "myself" and my personal issues.. Yet, this is a separate subject.

Anyway, I have pretty much understood the message God has revealed to us, but the one thing that takes some time to understand is, iniquity. Or, to say it another way, evil. Why did God create Lucifer? human logic tells us that if God knew that Lucifer would sin, then God created sin, because God claims that he has created all things. But, after closer examination, we find that this logic fails if we honestly look at it...

So I think this is a good area to look at and is completely in line with your article and the questions put forth by cleg.. So, for now, I will sit back and check out the responses. Then, I will offer some of my thoughts on this most difficult subject to grasp.. "if God created all things, then he must have created evil".. The 'logical' person will now claim therefore, "God is evil"...

Is this true? Not at all, and I think you clearly have shown to us why this is true.....

-- posted by _Boanerges_

Top 63. Oct 16, 2005 2:59 PM

» Dubh_Sidhe - Re: Did God Create Evil?

In response to Did God Create Evil? posted by _Boanerges_:

You asked Why did God create Lucifer?

Let me change that sentence a bit, if I may to Why did God create Angels (of which Lucifer was one?)

Regarding "God is evil or that God created evil"
I refer to Isaiah 45:7 which reads, " I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil. I the Lord do all these things."

This is a remarkable statement and it is important to understand what it means when He says
"I . . .create evil."

To understand this, it is necessary to understand a bit about Zoroastrianism. This religion started in Persia. It teaches that Mazda is the god of light. Now, in the above passage God says that He creates light, and then goes on to say that light is NO god.

Actually, the Persians were getting pretty close to the truth here. It has been asked why did the Persians worship one god while surrounded by idolatry? Remember, the Persians were in contact with Israel, and Israel was a witness to the known world. Now, in Zoroastrianism, darkness was Ahriman, the god of evil -- and God takes responsibility for creating darkness -- therefore,
logic says that God created evil!

It is important to know that God can take any evil and use it toward good. "All things work for good. . ."

In this Scripture evil does not actually mean wickedness, but rather sorrow, difficulty, and tragedy, and these things ARE the result of evil or the result of sin. I think it means the same thing Romans 6:23 saying "The wages of sin is death." We can't sin and get away with it. We reap what we sow.

Source: Matthew Henry's Commentary and notes written in my Bible.

-- posted by Dubh_Sidhe

Top 64. Oct 16, 2005 7:08 PM

» EvilChihuahua - Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: why does god allow innocent people to suffer

In response to Re: Re: Re: Re: why does god allow innocent people to suffer posted by Dubh_Sidhe:

Remember that man is a trinity, and he would have to die in a threefold way. Adam did not die physically until over 900 years after the Fall, but he did die spiritually, the momemt he disobeyed God.

I should have mentioned that as well, about Adam and Eve dying spiritually.

Your post makes a heap of sense. Keep up the great work. smile

-- posted by EvilChihuahua

Top 65. Oct 17, 2005 3:39 AM

» Dubh_Sidhe - Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: why does god allow innocent people to su

In response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: why does god allow innocent people to suffer posted by TheJesusFreak:

"No. This was not a lie because they did die.
. . . I should have mentioned that as well."

You answered correctly, and you implied spiritual death along with physical death, so your reply was correct, JesusFreak.

-- posted by Dubh_Sidhe

Top 66. Oct 20, 2005 4:24 AM

» Dubh_Sidhe - What in the World Is Happening?

October 19 - Olive Tree Ministries - What on Earth is Happening?

Are you looking up or looking around? The world is in disbelief as it sees the earth shaking and they are asking, "What on earth is happening?" I do hope you have an answer for them. Daily stories come to me about unbelieving loved ones now asking questions about Eternity, the end of the age, and more. There is a "fear factor", of course.

A year's worth of trauma has the unbeliever's heart fainting. Tsunami's, hurricanes, floods, earthquakes, and more, and all of them preceded with the words "record-setting." Here comes Wilma, perhaps the most powerful hurricane yet. Then we run out of alphabet letters and go to the Greek alphabet...never done before....ever.

We have talk of gross pestilence with the Avian flu or bird flu. There is no immunity to this strain of bird flu if passed on to humans, though there is an experimental vaccine. The word "pandemic" is tossed around quite loosely and it would have a global effect.

There is more talk of a nuclear threat to the West including the U.S., but it seems only the CDC is talking about it very much.

What's happening is "controlled chaos." Controlling it all is God who is trying to get people's attention and since man is by nature indifferent, He is nearly "shocking it to us." And while there will always be the skeptics who will have a scientific explanation for things, to say that the events of the 21st Century are "cyclical" or accidental is to almost be out of touch with reality. But perhaps secular humanists will always look for any answer to deny God, His power, His glory, and especially His coming again and the accompanying warning signs.

So as Wilma prepares to take aim at America, take note that Mahmoud Abbas is also coming to America this week. He will get the royal treatment, more U.S. dollars, more encouragement, more praise...none of it deserved. The successor of Arafat's throne, responsible for the slaying of three Israelis this week, will be rewarded, and appeasing terror encourages more of the same.

Do look up! Never lose sight of our "blessed hope" which the book of Titus refers to...Jesus' return. Many are yawning. I hope you are yearning.

-- posted by Dubh_Sidhe

Top 67. Oct 22, 2005 2:35 AM

» Dubh_Sidhe - While Suite is Off Line...

While Suite101 is off line during the month of November, you may visit me at Pool of Bethesda for a continuation of articles.

Although there is not a discussion board as such, I do have a Guest Book were you may leave comments and discussion points.

Thanks to the many supporters of this topic. I hope to see you at the Pool. . .

-- posted by Dubh_Sidhe

Top 68. Oct 22, 2005 7:33 AM

» _Boanerges_ - Re: While Suite is Off Line...

In response to While Suite is Off Line... posted by Dubh_Sidhe:

Thanks to the many supporters of this topic. I hope to see you at the Pool. . .

You know I will be there smile ...

This is a great topic, Virginia... You should be proud of all that you have written on, glorifying God and edifying the saints... It doesn't get much better than that smile ...

-- posted by _Boanerges_