A Philosophical Study on the Existence of God

Top 106. May 2, 2005 6:51 PM

» _Boanerges_ - objective things

In response to Elmer Gantry posted by Pinky102:

I don't follow your reasoning here. Are you saying that Good and Evil are objective things that exist outside of us? And, so, does a person give himself over to one or the other?

Yes, I think were on the same right track with my thoughts. Although, I would say that good and evil exist outside of us. But did the devil make me do it? No.. How do I know that? Because I did not know what the 'devil' was at 12yrs old. Nor, did I know what God was at 12. Like I have said before, I never gave one thought to God until I was 35. I suppose I was an Atheist for a lack of better term. I think what would help the rationalization is if you would agree (or not) that what I have described, from stealing, to cats, to Mengels, is evil.... What is your thoughts on these things that I have mentioned. Do you see these things as evil? In other words, where/when is evil realized in your experience? That is, does evil exist. Not that, does the devil exists, but does evil exist and if so, does mankind have the capacity to be wicked, evil? For me, it is apparant that men are wicked. But - not all men have done the severity of that which Stalin or Hitler did. But then again, I tortured cats many times... What seperates that difference between killing 6 millions Jews, along with another 40 million deaths, that was all caused by one, very wicked man, Hitler - as the example. In fact, as I said, history is filled with men and women with the same type of record.

-- posted by _Boanerges_

Top 107. May 3, 2005 4:54 AM

» Pinky102 - Re: objective things

In response to objective things posted by _Boanerges_:

My view isn't all that important to this discussion; but, I know, personally, that I have the capacity to think evil thoughts. I believe that if I had been born when Hitler was and if I grew up as a child in Germany and served in the German army during World War One, I probably would have thought a lot like Hitler. And, it makes sense that I would have seen him as my choice of leaders. Like flowers and weeds, we grow where we're planted.

How can I judge another man who has had the same life background as the one in which I was raised? The Native Americans thought a person had to walk in another man's shoes in order to judge him. I never walked in Hitler's shoes and I never walked in Stalins. These two guys came out of a political hash in which they were convinced it was a dog eat dog world. They believed they had to do a lot of things that were considered bad in order to achieve some thing they thought was good for the future. When Harry Truman sent the Atomic Bombs to Japan and ordered the killing of so many people he thought he was achieving a greater good. He had the good and the bad in his own being--it wasn't outside of him. And, when he ordered American troops into Korea, he caused the deaths of not only tens of thousands of Americans and God only knows how many Koreans but with their deaths future humans who would have otherwise been born never even existed. So, he blotted out the potential of untold numbers of worlds.

Evil is a thing that people see as relative to something else. My judgement is that war is evil; members of my family believe that it can be justified as good. Go figure.

smile

-- posted by Pinky102

Top 108. May 3, 2005 6:32 AM

» _Boanerges_ - Re: Evil

In response to Evil posted by Dubh_Sidhe:

I agree, Dubh....
I have judged evil.... it is wickedness and I want no part of it. I am not like Hitler, nor would I ever be like Hitler. I would go to war for my country, which is necessary.... a time for war, a time for peace. Evil is real and I do not choose it. There in lies the difference between me and Hitler, Himler, Mengels.. etc.. They were evil, wicked, cruel, heartless - worthless. You can be sure they will get their due judgment. Its a no-brainer. That is what seperates the wicked from the righteous. Those who reject God, love death. It is quite obvious these men rejected Jesus Christ and accepted the occult. They were not only sinners, they manifested their wickedness for all the world to see, and were unrepentant as they did their evil deeds in secret. All they created was death, destruction, agony, despair and inflicted anguish upon millions.

What seperates them from me? I repented and sought God. Those who do not repent of their wickedness, have accepted evil. There is no difference. A liar is a murderer as the heart has become corrupted and is completely turned over to its own devices.

Pollution only destroys the body..... Corruption, destroys the soul... Without God, mankind is turned unto his own corruption. God will judge the degree of punishment. Likewise, He will reward those who have put forth their works..

Proverbs 8:36 But he that sinneth against me wrongeth his own soul: all they that hate me love death

-- posted by _Boanerges_

Top 109. May 4, 2005 1:40 PM

» Pinky102 - Re: Re: Re: Romans the 7th Chapter

In response to Re: Re: Romans the 7th Chapter posted by Dubh_Sidhe:

smile

-- posted by Pinky102

Top 110. May 4, 2005 3:54 PM

» _Boanerges_ - Re: Re: Re: Re: Romans the 7th Chapter

In response to Re: Re: Re: Romans the 7th Chapter posted by Pinky102:

seems reasonable to me, Phil.. I think the Bible is able to highlight truth on an eternal basis.. that is, the same verse can demonstrate multitudes of situations.. 2,000 years of Christianity and think of all the sermons on the same verses.... kind of hard to imagine. I mean, imagine talking 2,000 years worth of [insert topic].... I don't think anything on earth matches the Bible and the depths of each page...

-- posted by _Boanerges_

Top 111. May 4, 2005 4:23 PM

» Pinky102 - Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Romans the 7th Chapter

In response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Romans the 7th Chapter posted by _Boanerges_:

I think I agree.

"... the same verse can demonstrate multitudes of situations."

So, why do you traditionalists always seem to put the same spin on everything?

Doesn't that prove a predisposition to your particular bias?

I don't have a problem with that; but, shouldn't you be able to admit that you do read the Bible with a predispostion as to what you're going to learn, ie., that the message always has to support your position?

smile

-- posted by Pinky102

Top 112. May 4, 2005 4:34 PM

» _Boanerges_ - Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Romans the 7th Chapter

In response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Romans the 7th Chapter posted by Pinky102:

Like I have said before, I had no position. As a matter of fact, I was, for a lack of a better word, an Atheist. So today, when I read Romans 1:28 it is revealed as true, because it was true... John verifies the same truth...

1John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

Peter describes the very same thing.....

2Peter 1:4 having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust....

Through lust?.... Do you understand what that means? Have you experienced 'through lust'? Lust is what brought my downfall. Yet I did not see it that way. Yet my sin was what brought this forward. Now how could I have a position of this, when that was not true? What was true, was that the corruption of sin is what brought about my downfall. But, as I have said, God revealed what was true to me. Then, I went and looked at his word. Not what you keep saying. Maybe that is true for you, but it was not for me. No man came to me and pounded a position into my thoughts. Only the Holy Spirit was able to do that. I am not sure why I have to keep repeating this? It seems you do not want to accept that as true? What can I say then..... All I know is that we are called to give out the word of God.. Thats all.. Its the Holy Spirit that converts.. As is what happened to me.. Like I said, I did not even consider God six years ago...

-- posted by _Boanerges_