Mary, the Mother of Jesus
- Traditions
- StCatherine
- StCatherine
- Basil
- Traditions
- Basil
- Traditions
- Basil
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» Traditions - Personal Interest
The very origin and being of Mary really seems to define the difference between the Catholic churches' branches of Christianity and the rest of us. I feel a great kinship with almost all the other teachings of Catholicism, though I was not baptized as a Catholic.I would like to learn the scriptural basis for the reverence of the Mother of Jesus. Most Christians believe the story of Jesus' birth to the Virgin Mary, and hold her in the very highest regard. However, I have not found those scriptures that instruct Christians that she is an Intercessor for our prayers. Nor can I find a scripture that mentions her own Immaculate Conception.
This is an earnest request for knowledge. I am not here to dispute anyone's system of beliefs.
When you have instructed me in this respect, I also need to learn the proper use of icons in worship. Mary and icons are my huge blank spots when it comes to Christian knowledge.
Ann
-- posted by Traditions
» StCatherine - Quick answer
The reverence for the Blessed Virgin comes from Tradition. From the earliest times the Blessed Virgin was honored.Imagine you are among the Christians who saw the risen Lord, maybe you are among those who witnessed the Ascension that we will remember this Thursday. How would you feel about the mother of the man you saw crucified, then alive and then ascending into heaven?
Everyone would be fascinated by everything about her - her parenting techniques, her spiritual life, her recipes or hairstyles, even.
While not recorded in scripture, it is believed that the Blessed Virgin had gifts of healing as did the Apostles.
Catholics do have a different take from Protestants on the scripture where Jesus, from the Cross, looks at John and says, "Behold, your mother." The Catholic Church teaches that this saying was not meant specifically for John, but was meant for all Christians; that we are all to "Behold, our mother."
Catholic teaching about the Blessed Virgin is contained in the Catechism and other texts.
It is quite awesome to think about a flesh and blood womb containing the incarnation of her/our Creator for a time. And she spent more time with Jesus than any other person, considering that she reared him and that he remained in her household until he was 30. And at least part of the time he was ministering, she was among those who traveled with him.
-- posted by StCatherine
» StCatherine - More about the Blessed Virgin
I wrote an article last year called Mary, Mother of the Church which has some more info.-- posted by StCatherine
» Basil - more stuff about Mary, etc.
I keep coming up with thoughts on topics but never seem to have time to really get anything written up - oh well, maybe after finals.Well, here are some considerations on the Marian thing:
As Catherine noted, much of Marian devotion is derived from Sacred Tradition, i.e. those Traditions which are considered to have originated with Christ or the Apostles or which are essential the the Church's dogma and doctrine. Furthermore, one must bear in mind that early Christians did not have a bible as we know it upon which they based their faith. The ancient Church was above all rooted in Tradition (both sacred and human). In fact scripture itself was based on the traditions received from the Apostles, et al (in a sort of circular argument, note Paul's letter to Timothy where he enjoins Timothy to "keep to the traditions handed on to you").
Both Catholicism and Orthodoxy have deep and powerful devotion to Mary. Mary's role increased in importance during the 4th to 6th centuries partially as a result of the christological controversies. The various theological/dogmatic statements about Mary are made in order to defend/support various beliefs about the nature of Christ.
Thus, Mary is defined as Mother of God at Ephesus in order to emphasise the unity of two natures (human/divine) in one person of Jesus. Her role as Mediatrix while never defined emphasises her unique relationship to Christ and by corollary the unique relationship between Christ and the Father. One could go on, but suffice it to say that the position and role of Mary in the ancient Church was closely related to the essential nature of Christ.
It all fits together.
Icons, now there is something really dear to my heart. I will try to develope that further in another post if you are interested.
-- posted by Basil
» Traditions - Icons
Yes, please. I do need to understand the mystery involved in veneration of icons, in particular how the practice of kissing icons developed.The act of kissing the cross and the Papal ring is also important for me to understand. As a westerner in birth and carrying my individualistic world view, I find I have difficulty understanding a few central practices of the hierarchical branches of Christianity, though their doctrine seems "natural" to my understanding.
-- posted by Traditions
» Basil - kissing icons
various gestures have indicated reverance, honor or greeting since antiquity and before. These are typical human behavioral traits which allow us to interact on a basic level. I'm sure that an anthropologist could tell you much more about the various gestures common among societies throughout history.The kiss of familiar/honorific greeting was applied not only to the person, but even to the image of the person. Thus, the icon (Greek for image) of a person would be reveranced or kissed as a means of honoring the person or event it represents.
Perhaps I should note a more fundamental element of the icon first.
On a practical and fundamental level humans are physical, social beings. Abstract ideas and metaphysical realities are routinely translated into physical form in order to make them comprehensible and meaningful. For instance, we retain object and photos of deceased or distant relatives in order to make them present to us. Souveniers serve the purpose of making real a past experience. The icon makes real and present Christ, Mary, the saints and various events central to Christian spirituality. Furthermore, they allow tangible, physical interaction with the supernatural.
This is the principle upon which the whole Christian theology of the Incarnation is based, as well as Sacramental theology and the use of the image. The council of Nicea II dealt specifically with this issue in 787.
Essentially the principle runs thus: God manifests himself in human form in Jesus (Incarnation). Jesus is the "image (icon) of the invisible God". The Sacraments are the actions of Christ extended through time by his body, the Church. Thus, these actions and the Church allow a direct and physical connection to a specific person (Christ) and specific salvific actions (initiation, forgiveness, healing, marriage, conferal of authority, etc.). The icon is an extension of this incarnational thinking. The image/icon makes real the holy persons and events essential to salvation. As such, they become extensions of the divine and (to quote Nicea) "the honor bestowed on them passes to the person depicted."
It may also help to understand the importance, meaning and function of imagery in the milieu in which Christianity develops its theologcal understanding of images.
In the ancient world, the image was often treated as the reality it depicted. Thus, a statue of a god was a type of "incarnation" of that god. Legal documents and agreements made in the presence of the Emperor's statue were considered sealed in his presence. Thus, it was an easy move to see the image of Christ, et al as possesed of similar power and authority.
Kissing the ring or foot of the Pope or other bishop (declining in practice today) is similar to this insofar as in these cases the reverence is being shown to those objects which represent the office that person holds. Furthermore, in the theology of Apostolic Succession, the bishop holds the place of the Apostle in the Church. Hence, by honoring the office and person of the Bishop, honor is being shown to the giver of that authority (unltimately God).
A footnote on differences between Christian and pagan notions of an image's nature and power: Frequently this seems to subsist in the Christian image's power/connection to Christ rather than a difference in the images essential function (both are seen as extensions of the spiritual, not replacements for the spiritual). An example from Florentine history comes to mind
During a war with neighboring Pisa (If I remeber correctly) an image of an ancient Roman God was discovered and given a place of honor in the Palazzo Vecchio. Things subsequently went so badly for the Florentines they became convinced that the old god was to blame. They then removed the statue, carried it to the Pisan border and lobbed it into the enemy's territory (thus cursing Pisa).
This perhaps does not really answer the question, but I'm on a roll!
-- posted by Basil
» Traditions - honorific gestures
Thank you for your explanation. I think I can understand my own difficulty with this particular human gesture now.The natural spirituality of the kiss has been so carnalized in our modern imagery that "the movie kiss" gets in the way of the meaning of a kiss whose motive is "caritas."
Thank you for taking time for this discussion.
-- posted by Traditions
» Basil - glad to!
You are exactly correct as to the carnalization of the kiss in modern American culture. There are, of course, many cultures in which this gesture retains its ancient meaning.Kind of like the concept of Love in that regard, but that's a tale for a different time and place.
Glad to be of assistance any way I can. =8-))
-- posted by Basil
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