Why We Left Lutheranism--Introduction

Top 2. Jul 2, 2001 6:34 AM

» H2O - Re: Use of catecism alone?

In response to message posted by drm4622:

The person never states anything about that. Very likely a "fringe" Lutheran who never went to Bible class after confirmation--if even to services. My pastor was the same way. When I taught catechism, the catechism was an outline for teaching; I permitted my students to only have the Bible open. And we looked at context!

Nevertheless, no doubt some take shortcuts. Dogmatics with one seminary professor was going through lists of passages on each topic as well as writings by early church fathers and Lutheran theologians. Another professor used Pieper as a guide, but we studied the Scriptures and the context around key passages.

And I also know that usually in the WELS/ELS, pastors will take new members (many even take WELS/ELS transfers) through a basic Christian doctrine class. But in ELCA, I know of pastors that have an orientation class on one evening with minimal doctrine.

As you read future installments, it will become clear that this person either only knows the Lutheranism as they remember it, or got some bad mojo from some slick "evangelists." We currently have a vicar at Salem who despaired that the Lutheran church was no longer Lutheran--then found there were acronyms such as LC-MS, WELS, ELS. This former Baptist, former Quaker sem student, former many things, is a coloquy student in the WELS.

-- posted by H2O

Top 3. Jul 7, 2001 5:55 AM

» filosofer - Bible - Catechism

As a pastor (and while at sem) I have taught Christian doctrine to adults and youth for 20+ years. Initially I used the catechism. In the last 13 years I developed my own curriculum using the outline of the catechism but only the Bible was used in class. What is amazing is that people would be open to the same teaching if "it came from the Bible" but not if "it came from Luther's Catechism." However, after teaching the class that way, then as a review at the end, I would hand out the catechism. Most were amazed that it did, in fact, summarize the Biblical doctrines.

-- posted by filosofer

Top 4. Aug 14, 2001 1:29 PM

» H2O - Re: Bible - Catechism

In response to message posted by filosofer:

Luther was VERY thorough in his doctrine and teaching. He often thought things out long and hard before uttering or writing on doctrine. (Yes, his tract against the Jews is one of those times he could have done more thinking before writing.) But to Luther, the Scriptures were paramount. He developed the catechism not as an addendum to Scripture, but as an exposition of Scripture.

Dr. Siegbert Becker at Wisconsin Lutheran Seminary used to say: "People will believe ANYTHING as long as its not from the Bible."

Maybe we can start a discusion here on how readers have learned Christian doctrine? Catechism? Adult Instruction? Self-study? Should be an interesting discussion.

john

-- posted by H2O

Top 5. Aug 14, 2001 2:53 PM

» Caroline - Re: Re: Bible - Catechism

In response to message posted by H2O:

Ok John, good idea. I'll start (or add on): I have always felt that my sunday school experiences and catechism training was some of the best learning I've ever had (and I've been to college). We had to memorize verses - the whole bit. But we also knew that the catechism was just a learning tool of scripture itself - I don't see how that is really missed!
From there, bible study and personal study also added to it. Overall, I am most thankful for that "best education" experience in catechism.

And for those who don't know me I'm (just barely) under 30. ;-)

-- posted by Caroline