CLOSED!!Political Discussion - A Place to &quot;duke it out&quot; (7400+)

Top 1054. Aug 15, 2003 6:40 PM

» Fred2000 - Democrats Target Bush on Blackout

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CEDAR RAPIDS, Iowa (AP) - The Democratic presidential contenders blamed President Bush Friday for the massive blackout in the northeastern United States, saying the White House's refusal to invest in the nation's infrastructure caused the problem.

``It underscores a blackout in this administration on energy policies,'' Massachusetts Sen. John Kerry said. ``They have ignored the investment needs of our infrastructure in favor of a tax cut for the wealthy.''

Northeastern cities from New York City across to Toledo, Ohio, were gripped by a massive blackout Thursday afternoon that left officials scrambling to restore power and searching for causes of the failure.

While no one has yet pinpointed a cause, Democrats were quick to bash Bush.

Missouri Rep. Richard Gephardt argued that the blackouts can be linked to flaws in Bush and the Republican party's energy policy. ``These events illustrate how shortsighted the Bush administration and Republican-controlled Congress were in 2001 when they rejected modernization of our nation's power grid,'' Gephardt said.

Much of the criticism came during a labor forum featuring six of the Democratic presidential candidates. One of the candidates, the Rev. Al Sharpton, was forced to cancel because of jumbled air schedules after the blackout.

Florida Sen. Bob Graham said Bush called for new investment in electrical transmission systems but Republicans blocked a Democratic effort to do just that.

``Just two years ago, he and his allies in Congress blocked a Democratic proposal to invest $350 million in upgrading America's electrical grid system,'' Graham said. ``The blackout is further evidence that America needs to invest in its infrastructure.''

North Carolina Sen. John Edwards chose not to immediately attack Bush. ``I think we need to find out what happened,'' Edwards said.

Former Vermont Gov. Howard Dean said the Bush administration, through the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission, tried to merge the New England's electrical grid with New York's when he still governor.

``I raised hell and told them they better get a lot of lawyers,'' he said in a telephone interview. ``The president always sees bigger as being better and that's not true. What we really need to do is let local people take care of things. What we need is good, strong regional grids. We do not need huge mega-grids.

-- posted by Fred2000

Top 1055. Aug 15, 2003 7:38 PM

» DellaO - Update on the Power Failure

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Bush Says Blackout Was 'Wake-Up Call'
Fri August 15, 2003 10:12 PM ET

By David Morgan
NEW YORK (Reuters) - Amid sweltering heat, the United States and Canada slowly recovered from the largest power outage in North American history on Friday, with President Bush calling the blackout a "wake-up call" to fix an antiquated electricity grid.

The White House said the United States and Canada would set up a joint task force to determine the cause of the blackout, which hit tens of millions of people in New York, Detroit, Cleveland, Ottawa, Toronto and other cities.

New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg said on Friday evening that power had been restored to 85 percent of the city. But transit officials said it would be several hours before the city's subways would be back in action.

"We are getting there," he said, applauding the 8 million residents for efforts to get by without electricity and air conditioning as temperatures rose above 90 degrees (32 C).

On Broadway, shows reopened after canceling performances on Thursday, the Mets played baseball at Shea Stadium and traffic was light as many people took the day off.

As Americans digested the speed with which the electricity system collapsed, they also expressed relief that the blackout was not the result of terrorism.

Emergency procedures designed to evacuate people from subways and elevators worked. People took the inconvenience with good humor and law and order prevailed in most placed.

Police in Ottawa reported some looting and also attributed two deaths to the outage. New York reported only one death.

The recovery was far from smooth. Air Canada canceled all flights worldwide after emergency power systems crashed at its main operations control center near Toronto, stranding thousands of passengers.

TELEPHONE GLITCHES

Telephone systems slowly began returning to normal but there were still difficulties, particularly on wireless networks. Banks worked to reopen branches and automatic teller machines.

In Washington, the House of Representatives Energy and Commerce Committee said it would hold an investigation into the blackout.

Bush, visiting California, praised the country's emergency response system, saying work since the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks to upgrade procedures had paid off. Now, the nation needed to make the same investment in its electricity grid.

"I view it as a wake-up call," Bush told reporters, adding that the blackout was "an indication we need to modernize the electricity grid."

As a symbol of recovery, Mayor Bloomberg rang the opening bell on the New York Stock Exchange. Stocks closed slightly higher and trading was much thinner than usual.

Outside, confused, tired and sweaty New Yorkers wandered the streets. By afternoon, most of the garish electronic hoardings in Times Square were back on.

But New York power operators asked for permission to impose rolling blackouts to prevent customers from overloading the system. Canadian power generators also expected to impose controlled power cuts.

New York Gov. George Pataki said he wanted to know why the system crashed so catastrophically.

"How did this happen, why did it happen and why did we have a systemic failure across the power grid in the northeast when we were told after the blackout in the 1960s that this would not happen again?" Pataki said.

PROCEDURES FAILED

Procedures put in place after a huge blackout in 1965 to isolate breakdowns to small areas failed.

Former Energy Secretary Bill Richardson said much of the U.S. electricity system was 50 or 60 years old. "We're a superpower with a third-world grid. We need a new grid," said Richardson, now governor of New Mexico.

William Museler, president of the New York Independent System Operator, said initial analysis suggested the event began somewhere in the U.S. Midwest.

Ontario's premier Ernie Eves advised citizens to remain home and save energy, as officials in the province said it could be days before power was fully restored.

Airlines canceled at least 1,200 flights as airports struggled to restore service. Some Cleveland residents lacked tap water after the outage shut down pumping stations.

-- posted by DellaO

Top 1056. Aug 15, 2003 8:17 PM

» Lawhawk - Bipartisan blame for blackout

Beyond the rhetoric, the fact remains is that both sides of the aisle are to blame for the blackout - neither Democrats nor Republicans devoted enough attention to making sure that the energy distribution network in the US was updated and modernized. Individual companies may have spent billions on upgrades (ConEd in NY claims to have spent over a billion in the last two years alone upgrading its systems - particularly in light of several brownouts or blackouts due to older equipment).

Individual companies may upgrade parts, but others may not be doing a sufficient job. The regional operators of the grid may not be doing a sufficient job. All of this needs to be taken into account. I'm sure there are plenty of reports about the grid that span back 5 years or 10 years or even 15 years.

The buck stops here - this country can't afford to have this kind of event occur - and any kind of solution will be likely be bipartisan since the nature of the blackout affected states across the political spectrum.

-- posted by Lawhawk

Top 1057. Aug 16, 2003 3:37 AM

» Fred2000 - Re: Bipartisan blame for blackout

In response to message posted by Lawhawk:

"Beyond the rhetoric, the fact remains is that both sides of the aisle are to blame for the blackout - "

Lawhawk... Just another example where the Bush administration has placed emphasis on tax cuts and regime change in Iraq before they take care of internal needs. The president spent months fighting to fix public opinion for an attack on Iraq. If anything, this is a clear picture of Bush not doing the right things to keep America safe. Recall when Homeland Security suggested Americans buy duct tape and plastic sheets?

Missouri Rep. Richard Gephardt argued that the blackouts can be linked to flaws in Bush and the Republican party's energy policy. ``These events illustrate how shortsighted the Bush administration and Republican-controlled Congress were in 2001 when they rejected modernization of our nation's power grid,'' Gephardt said.

Florida Sen. Bob Graham said Bush called for new investment in electrical transmission systems but Republicans blocked a Democratic effort to do just that.

``Just two years ago, he and his allies in Congress blocked a Democratic proposal to invest $350 million in upgrading America's electrical grid system,'' Graham said. ``The blackout is further evidence that America needs to invest in its infrastructure.''

It appears that interaction between elected representatives is no longer a parliamentary procedure but a political pissing contest. Too many zealots and ideologues.

-- posted by Fred2000

Top 1058. Aug 16, 2003 4:18 AM

» Fred2000 - Re: Bipartisan blame for blackout

In response to message posted by Lawhawk:

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Scientists Had Warned of Weak Power Grid

By DAFNA LINZER and JIM KRANE
The Associated Press
Friday, August 15, 2003; 6:01 PM

NEW YORK - Scientists and engineers with the National Research Council warned the White House and Congress about the vulnerability of the power grid as recently as November, saying nationwide weaknesses needed to be repaired - and fast.

Little has been done, despite a chorus of experts who've pushed since well before Sept. 11 to fix a grid that's riddled with threadbare links and plagued by chronic shortages.

"The power grid has not gotten much more than important conversations since Sept. 11," said Paul Gilbert, a member of the National Academy of Engineering, which worked on the report for the National Research Council.

The report, "Making the Nation Safer: The Role of Science and Technology in Countering Terrorism," was issued in response to the Sept. 11 attacks, but it noted that the systems were "subject to increased stress even without the threat of terrorism."

The report urged the protection of key elements of the power grid and the creation of an updated system that would limit vulnerabilities to the flow of electricity.

"Technology should be developed for an intelligent, adaptive power grid," that would be able "to rapidly respond with graceful system failure and rapid power recovery," the report recommended. The report's authors shared their findings and recommendations with the White House and congressional committees last November, Gilbert said.

-- posted by Fred2000

Top 1059. Aug 16, 2003 1:24 PM

» Laughman - Re: Re: Some Real Information About the Power Failure

In response to message posted by Lawhawk:

The problems had nothing to do with deregulation, but some kind of problem that hasn't been determined yet.

Wonderful logic. If the problem hasn't been determined yet, how can you say it has nothing to do with deregulation?

-- posted by Laughman

Top 1060. Aug 16, 2003 3:22 PM

» Fred2000 - Re: Some Real Information About the Power Failure

In response to message posted by Laughman:

"If the problem hasn't been determined yet, how can you say it has nothing to do with deregulation?"

Laughman... Or terrorism?

In fact, it probably has a lot to do with deregulation. Right now, there is no one setting standards. There is no motivation for any meaningful discussion, cooperation or investment among the power companies. How can it not fail. A runaway horse.

When the "investigators" come to a conclusion it will probably be exactly what the government was told by the experts years ago. The basics of electricity and power distribution are fairly well understood.

-- posted by Fred2000

http://www.argusleader.com/news/Sundayar...

Top 1061. Aug 17, 2003 6:26 AM

» SteveT - Janklow driver in crash; biker dies

By JENNIFER SANDERSON, ROBERT MORAST and PETER HARRIMAN
Argus Leader

published: 8/17/2003

Motorcyclist victim at intersection in rural Moody County

Congressman Bill Janklow was the driver of a vehicle involved in a collision that killed a motorcyclist Saturday afternoon in rural Moody County.

Col. Dan Mosteller of the South Dakota Highway Patrol said early today that Janklow, 63, had a staff member with him in his Cadillac when the accident occurred at 4:30 p.m. He did not know whether they were injured. The staff member was not identified.

Moody County Coroner Tad Jacobs said the motorcyclist, a man in his 40s, was dead at the scene.

The crash happened at the intersection of Highway 13 and Trent Road. The site is three miles east of Trent and 10 miles south of Flandreau.

The accident is under investigation by the Highway Patrol.

Jacobs said he thinks the cyclist was the only one injured. Hospitals in Flandreau, Dell Rapids and Sioux Falls said they had no information that Janklow was a patient.

Jacobs would not identify the driver or the victim. He characterized the collision as "a motorcyclist headed eastbound. A car ran the intersection going southbound and struck the motorcyclist."

Mosteller could not confirm that information early today.

Jacobs said his dominant impression of the accident was that "the cyclist was not wearing a helmet. That's the major thing."

Moody County State Attorney Bill Ellingson offered no comment Saturday night.

Authorities were making efforts to notify the victim's family, possibly in southwest Minnesota.

Jacobs was called to the accident at approximately 5 p.m. He pronounced the victim dead at the scene "from extensive trauma from impact."

The coroner said he drew blood samples to determine alcohol levels from the victim and the driver involved in the accident "as is routine in almost any situation like this." The results of those tests were not available late Saturday. Jacobs said the samples would be tested in a state laboratory.

Janklow, a Republican whose hometown is Flandreau, was South Dakota's governor from 1979 to 1987 and again from 1995 to 2003. He was elected last fall to the U.S. House of Representatives.

Janklow's sister, Joanne Lind, declined to comment on the accident Saturday night.

Trent volunteer firefighters blocked access from all four directions, with each barricade about a mile from the accident scene. Small rises, barely hills, kept the site out of view, with only a hint of blue flashing lights visible from one roadblock.

One firefighter, who did not wish to be identified, confirmed that Janklow was involved. He said he'd been unable to stop Mary Dean Janklow from getting through the roadblock. Later, officers at the site told him absolutely no one was to be admitted.

Richard Schmidt Jr., whose farm rests on Highway 14 about a mile east of Trent, said his father was home all afternoon. Richard Schmidt Sr. told his son that he'd noticed a lot of traffic heading east, starting at 4 p.m. Neither of the Schmidts had heard anything about an accident at the nearby intersection.

A Trent firefighter said he'd been at his southside post since 5 p.m. At first, he had only his own, unmarked vehicle. The amount of traffic warranted "getting the whites out here" and parking Trent's red-and-white fire engine so that its width spanned the blacktop road to the scene.

Reporters Jomay Steen and David Kranz contributed to this report.

-- posted by SteveT

Top 1062. Aug 17, 2003 8:01 AM

» Kirk - Energy Policy Problems are the Fault of both sides

In response to message posted by Fred2000:

Right now, there is no one setting standards.

Actually the problems are well known and there has been tons of warnings. Even in CA we know new plants are needed but NOBODY wants plants in their back yards nor does anyone want new transmission lines running where they can be seen.

BTW, my family has done our part. We had transmission lines run through our land recently. The power company was good enough to put the lines away from the houses so we don't see them but if we go to what was once some of the best views and where I might someday build another country home you now see a scar running down towards Santa Rosa for the power lines. Progress is not pretty.

Sort of like the energy policy. Bush and his crew have suggested several ways to meet our energy needs. But the ecofascists prefer we keep all the oil wells in the Middle East where they leak oil and pollute there rather than our ANR where we could have all sorts of laws to protect the environment.

The simple fact is there are different ideas on how to solve the problem and neigher side seems willing to budge. Only the immature blame the other side as if they have no part in the problem.

-- posted by Kirk