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Top 1685. May 4, 2002 10:09 PM

» JenL_2 - Re: Indonesian Front

In response to message posted by mitelo:

Mitelo - the billions of $$$ that the U.S. CIA gave Pakistan's ISI in the 80s to recruit "freedom fighters" to defeat the Soviets in Afghanistan served to strengthen the Pak ISI and their mechanisms for recruiting jihadis including Islamic Madrassa schools and training camps. And as we've seen this whole mechanism for recruiting Islamic militants snowballs because the students either become teachers of Islamic extremism, jihadis or terrorists...and the students exported the jihadi fanatic extremist Islam to other countries.

Would this expansion of Islamic extremism had happened without help from the US? We'll never know, because we can't go back and change history.....but we sure helped the situation along. I'm not saying that we should dwell on our past foreign policy mistakes.... or that we should throw up our hands and say "Well it's part our fault so their's nothing we can do to fix it".....No! - we have to go on from here and solve the problems at hand.....and later there will be time for introspection, and hopefully we will learn from past mistakes so we don't repeat them in the future.

Mitelo - you said....

Anyway, Singapore is sitting in a very fragile and vulnerable position. "Coalition" forces (most likely U.S.) may be needed to help defend that country's independence in the near future.

How so? Who and where is the threat to Singapore? Like I've said before... Singapore, Malaysia, Philippines, Thailand, even Indonesia are already partners through ASEAN, as well as being part of our coalition against terrorism ....these countries have always cooperated on an economic level....but the aftermath of 9/11 has raised their cooperation to a new level to combat terrorism.... and not just because they are trying to get on the good side of the US....these countries have been fighting internal militant extremists all along......but since 9/11 they and we realize that terrorism is not just an internal country problem. Of all these countries Indonesia is lagging in their cooperation in the war against terrorism....but as the articles posted above show, they have their own special problems...but even they have shown some cooperation, and the other ASEAN countries and the US are pushing Indonesia to get tougher on their Islamic militants. JMHO.......Jen

-- posted by JenL_2

Top 1686. May 5, 2002 5:26 AM

» mitelo - Re Indonesian Front

In response to message posted by JenL_2:

Jen,

Singapore is the least Moslem, most westernized, and the wealthiest in the region. It is small, about the size of Israel. It is surrounded by predominantly Moslem countries. The enthusiasm behind the "war on terror" in Indonesia is a joke.
Singapore is a sitting duck for terror strikes from Indonesia, pockets in Malaysia and Thailand, and from internal dissidents. It is far from any meaningful help, except the U.S. Fleet. JMHO, and I will grant you, I could be very wrong.

-- posted by mitelo

http://www.worldinfozone.com/country.php...

Top 1687. May 5, 2002 9:13 AM

» JenL_2 - Singapore - Malaysia

In response to message posted by mitelo:

Mitelo - The terrorist attacks that were thwarted in Singapore in Dec-Jan were all targeted at U.S. interests - plans to bomb U.S. ships docked in Singapore harbor, U.S. military personnel at a bus terminal, the U.S. embassy and U.S. companies in Singapore. U.S. interests are at risk wherever we are all around the world, because the al-Qaeda are all over the world.

Singapore & Malaysia, using their Internal Security Acts (ISA) as a tool, have been very successful in rounding up & arresting terrorists, thwarting terrorist attacks, and cracking the terrorist cells that operated between Singapore, Malaysia, Philippines and Indonesia....some of the players are still at large....but now that the extent of the terrorist problem is realized IMHO they're right on top of it.....I wish that we were doing as good a job rounding up terrorists here in the U.S.

Here's a little blurb on Singapore's multi-culturalism from a Singapore info site:

Population
The population of Singapore is just over three million. ....The majority of the population are Chinese (seventy-seven percent); Malays make up fourteen percent, Indians seven percent and there are smaller numbers of Pakistanis, Ceylonese, Arabs, Jews, Armenians and Vietnamese.

Languages
Singapore has four official languages: Malay, Mandarin, Tamil and English, the language of business and government.

Religion
With its mixture of races, Singapore has a number of religions: Buddhism, Hinduism, Islam, Confucianism, Christianity, Taoism, Judaism and Sikhism are all practised in the city state.

Food
Singapore's multicultural identity is seen in the food of the city state, with the influences of China, India, Malaysia and Indonesia all found in the local cuisine.

IMHO Singapore and Malaysia do their best to promote multi-culturalism. In Singapore the Muslim Malays are the minority and the Chinese are the majority. All the Singapore Malays would have to do is go across the border and become citizens of Malaysia - then they would be in the majority. But Singaporan Muslim Malays prefer to be Singaporans - at least that's what they've told me. The same goes for Malaysian Chinese - they could go across the border and become Singapore citizens and be in the majority....but Malaysian Chinese prefer to be Malaysians - at least that's what they've told me. For the most part in Singapore & Malaysia the minorities are not feeling oppressed.....the minorities may complain....but they aren't going about planning to blow themselves up in busy shopping malls....at least that's my impression of the situation from the folks I've talked to.

Yeah - Indonesia is still a hot spot for Islamic extremism - and the government has to get it under control....but IMHO Indonesian Islamic extremism is more of a threat to Indonesia than to Singapore or Malaysia, especially now that the extent of the terrorist problem is realized....Jen

-- posted by JenL_2

Top 1688. May 5, 2002 9:30 AM

» mitelo - Re: Singapore - Malaysia

In response to message posted by JenL_2:

-------
Jen,

I think there was an attack planned with a hijacked plane against the main airport in Singapore. The terrorists are thought to be in Thailand now. My understanding is that our presence is strongly sought by Singapore for its own security. They are squeamish about US-Israel relationship because of their neighborhood, but that is understandable.

-- posted by mitelo

Top 1689. May 5, 2002 9:46 AM

» JenL_2 - Re: Singapore - Malaysia

In response to message posted by mitelo:

Mitelo - you said...

Hmmm - hadn't heard about the planned hi-jacked plane attack against Singapore airport, nor that the terrorists are congregating in Thailand now. Got links to that info? I have no doubt that there are Islamic militants and even al-Qaeda related terrorist cells in Thailand .... even in the 70s Muslim extremist groups were attacking the trains in Thailand. When we left Malaysia in 1976 we took the train from Kuala Lumpur up the panhandle of Thailand to Bangkok and I remember saying... "Gee - sure hope our train isn't attacked!" It wasn't.

But Thailand is part of ASEAN and all ASEAN countries have made a pact to cooperate in the war against terrorism. The ASEAN countries are pushing each other to cooperate against terrorism to the fullest extent....not necessarily because they want to please the U.S., but because their economies depend upon regional stability & security.....Jen

-- posted by JenL_2

Top 1690. May 5, 2002 3:55 PM

» BPyles - Terror alert for Europe

Terror alert issued in Europe

By Claude Salhani
From the International Desk
Published 5/5/2002 12:35 PM

PARIS, May 5 (UPI) -- Le Journal du Dimanche reports Sunday that Osama bin Laden's al Qaida terrorist network is preparing to kidnap hundreds of people throughout Europe over the next few days.

The aim of the operation would be to acquire a number of European hostages and then exchange
them for Islamic activists currently being held in various European cities, the Paris-based paper
reported.

The newspaper cited Germany's Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung newspaper, and French intelligence sources in its report.

According to the report, about 30 members of al Qaida from Iraq, Iran, Yemen and Sudan are
preparing to strike targets in France, Great Britain and Germany and take a large numbers of
hostages in each country.

The plan, according to Le Journal du Dimanche, is to kidnap about 300 to 400 people in each
country by taking control of crowds in places such as cinemas, churches, or even by hijacking
cruise ships sailing in the Mediterranean.

The report said the terrorists are prepared to kill themselves along with their hostages.

The paper added that the intelligence was acquired by BKA, the German intelligence agency, in
Pakistan and was immediately shared with other European agencies.

Germany has already dismantled at least three terrorist cells operating on its territory since Sept.11, including one believed to be connected to the World Trade Center and Pentagon attacks.

-- posted by BPyles

http://www.latelinenews.com/ll/english/1203941.shtml

Top 1691. May 5, 2002 5:17 PM

» mitelo - Re: Re: Singapore - Malaysia

In response to message posted by JenL_2:

----

Jen,

Singapore uncovers plane crash plot---from muzi.com 4/7/02.

----

Link doesn't work (as usual).

Do Yahoo search: Singapore Terrorism Aiport Thailand

Those words should bring up the article.

-- posted by mitelo

Singaporean hijack plot revealed

Top 1692. May 5, 2002 7:35 PM

» JenL_2 - Re: Singapore - Malaysia

In response to message posted by mitelo:

Thanks Mitelo - I just found the AP source also at 5/4 Canoe News:

By EDWARD HARRIS -- The Associated Press

SINGAPORE (AP) -- A Singaporean member of an Islamic militant group linked to al-Qaida is suspected of planning to hijack a plane and crash it into the city-state's international airport, Singapore's prime minister said Friday.

The suspect belongs to Jemaah Islamiyah, a group implicated in an alleged plot to blow up the U.S. Embassy and other Western targets in Singapore, Prime Minister Goh Chok Tong told Parliament.

Goh identified the suspect as Mas Selemat Kastari. He is believed to have fled to Thailand in January.

Kastari was suspected of planning to hijack an aircraft from Indonesia, Malaysia or Thailand and crash it into Singapore's Changi Airport, Goh said. It was unclear if the alleged hijacking plan was to be carried out simultaneously with the other attacks.

Authorities say that Jemaah Islamiyah is linked to al-Qaida -- the terrorist network believed to have carried out the Sept. 11 attacks in the United States -- and is campaigning for a single hardcore Islamic state comprising Malaysia, Indonesia and the southern Philippines.

Thirteen other suspected members of Jemaah Islamiyah were arrested in Singapore in December in connection with the alleged plot to bomb Western targets and the U.S. Embassy.

Goh's comments suggested that the group's reach was wider than Singapore.

"Jemaah Islamiyah may also have Thai connections," he said. "In January this year, a Singaporean Jemaah Islamiyah fugitive, Mas Selemat Kastari, and four others were believed to have fled to Thailand."

Goh did not give names or other details about the other four fugitives.

He told Parliament that Southeast Asia faces an increasing homegrown terror threat.

"It is not just al-Qaida we are concerned with. It is militant Islam in our region. The al-Qaida terrorists are primarily against the Americans. The radical groups in our region have a different, regional agenda. The two have combined forces," he said.

While Thailand is primarily Buddhist, it has a minority Muslim population in its southern provinces, along the border with largely Muslim Malaysia.

In Bangkok, Lt. Gen. Hemaraj Tharithai, chief of Thailand's Immigration Police, said he had received no reports "that Singaporean terrorists crossed the border to Thailand."

Singapore's Senior Minister Lee Kuan Yew recently said that members of an Indonesian Muslim group connected to the Singapore bombing plot remain free in Indonesia, the world's most-populous Muslim nation. Lee's statements sparked a diplomatic row with Jakarta.

....Jen

-- posted by JenL_2

Pakistani clerics threaten US troops

Top 1693. May 5, 2002 9:10 PM

» JenL_2 - Secret al-Qaeda Raids in Pakistan

More on the Joint U.S. - Pak Operation from Newsweek and Guardian UK:

Pakistan: Secret Hunt, Elusive Prey

In search of bin Laden, Special Ops teams are raiding Pakistan’s tribal areas. A report from the front

By Rod Nordland and Scott Johnson
NEWSWEEK

May 13 issue — Something very secret is happening in the mountains above Miram Shah. Until a few months ago, this forsaken corner of Pakistan’s Northwest Frontier Province was effectively off-limits to the Islamabad government’s own security forces. Tribal elders were the unchallenged rulers of Waziristan, as the area is called. Now foreign troops are said to be roaming the high country, going anywhere they choose and apparently looking for something important. A shepherd named Ghulam came down a few days ago and told of being stopped and searched by English-speaking soldiers. “One of the Americans helped me round up my sheep after they questioned me,” he told NEWSWEEK. Another local tribesman reported seeing a squad of seven Americans. When Pakistani authorities heard his story, he says, they forced him to sign a statement that the GIs were on the Afghan side of the border. “But they were actually in Pakistan,” he insisted, even as he signed.

IT’S HARDLY a routine mission. Officially there are no foreign troops in Pakistan other than a few logistical-support personnel. The Pentagon has confirmed only that on April 30 it launched an operation code-named Mountain Lion, using unspecified numbers of elite British, Australian and U.S. 101st Airborne troopers, to seek out possible Qaeda hideouts. For the record, officials won’t even say where the forces are searching. But military sources privately confirm that U.S. Army Rangers and Delta operatives are inside Pakistan, working with local police. In the Afghan city of Khowst, just over the pass from Miram Shah, a well-connected Afghan intelligence official says Mountain Lion will soon expand into a major offensive on both sides of the border. “They have a plan to go into Miram Shah to do an operation,” he says. “There are 1,200 Americans and Brits in the tribal areas right now. They’re working very hard. They’re in a hurry.”

They may have good reason. Last week the Afghan chief of military intelligence in Khowst, Hazrat Uddin, said he had received “credible reports” that Osama bin Laden and his top lieutenant, Ayman al-Zawahiri, were seen near a place called Maidan, a village north of Miram Shah inside Pakistan. The source said bin Laden had trimmed his beard and appeared healthy, Uddin told NEWSWEEK. To be sure, false sightings of bin Laden come in every day. There’s no solid proof he’s even alive. But privately, many terrorism experts think Uddin is on the right track. Another Afghan commander in Khowst, Kamal Khan Zadran, who has 600 troops working with the Americans, says he thinks bin Laden’s men are trying to keep their leader safe inside Pakistan. “The local Al Qaeda network is active,” he says. “They’re working out their plans.” Zadran is convinced they’re out to protect an extremely important target.

If so, the Americans are determined to hit it. Inside Afghanistan, at the remote smuggler’s crossing of Ghulam Khan, the local Afghan commander, Mohammed Yaqoob, sits in a tent beside a tray of hard candies and a small satellite telephone. The wireless setup is his connection to his American handler, a man identified only as Jim. Yaqoob says the Americans have been running missions into Pakistan for weeks now. “The Americans collect weapons and arrest many people from the Pakistan side and bring them back,” says Jalal Khan, an Afghan allied with the Americans. “There were some important people, some commanders and some foot soldiers.”

Pakistani officials hated to let the U.S. military operate on their soil. They ran out of excuses in late March, though, when American communications intercepts led to the capture of Abu Zubaydah, one of bin Laden’s top lieutenants, at a safe house in the Pakistani city of Faisalabad, hundreds of miles from the Afghan border. Armed FBI and CIA agents accompanied elite Pakistani police on that raid and others that netted a total of 50 Qaeda fugitives. The arrests blindsided bin Laden’s former backers at Pakistan’s ISI intelligence agency—and mortified President Pervez Musharraf. After that, knowledgeable Pakistanis say, Musharraf decided he had no choice but to let the Americans in.

They jumped to work. On April 26, U.S. and Pakistani forces descended on a religious school in Miram Shah belonging to a prominent bin Laden supporter, Mullah Jalaluddin Haqqani. A caretaker at the school told NEWSWEEK how hundreds of troops scoured the 100-room complex, with support from helicopters hovering overhead. They found only a few women and children, and members of Haqqani’s family who said many pro-bin Laden fighters had been there but had left before the raid. Pakistani troops are now scouring his tribal homeland, and last week American soldiers raided a farm near the Afghan border, where they uncovered a cache of weapons villagers say he buried there a few months ago.

As elusive as Haqqani is, bin Laden is likely to prove even tougher to catch. “He’s kind of like Elvis,” says Col. Wayland Parker, the U.S. military’s liaison between coalition forces and the British-led international security force in Kabul. “He’s here, he’s dead, he’s there, he’s alive. The last time we felt sure about where, he was in Tora Bora. After that, he drops off the radar screen.” In fact, some analysts now question how long the Qaeda leader was in the Afghan cave complex. Radio intercepts seemed to prove he was there late last year, but at least some of those transmissions now seem to have been faked.

U.S. forces aren’t about to give up the search. Last October, as the war was just beginning, Haqqani scoffed at President George W. Bush’s vow to take Afghanistan away from the terrorists and their friends. “The Americans are creatures of comfort,” Haqqani bragged. “They will not be able to sustain the harsh conditions that await them.” Now thousands of U.S. troops will not rest until Haqqani has eaten his words—and bin Laden has paid for his crimes.

With Sami Yusefzai in the Northwest Frontier Province, Zahid Hussain in Islamabad and Colin Soloway in Washington

Rory McCarthy in Islamabad
Monday May 6, 2002
The Guardian

Islamist clerics in Pakistan's tribal areas have threatened to attack American troops who are mounting secret raids to track down senior al-Qaida commanders.

In the past month the war against the remnants of the Taliban and al-Qaida has crossed into Pakistan's deeply conservative tribal areas for the first time. US and Pakistani troops launched the operation with a raid near the border town of Miram Shah on a madrassah (religious seminary) owned by Jalaluddin Haqqani, a former Taliban minister who is now high on America's most-wanted list.

The raid has enraged tribal elders. On Saturday Maulana Mohammed Dindar, a cleric and former politician from the hardline Jamiat Ulema-i Islami party, told a large gathering of armed supporters at a meeting near Miram Shah that US forces should be stopped.

"We will not allow the religious institutions to be desecrated by US and Pakistani commandos in the guise of the search for wanted Taliban and al-Qaida members," he told the crowd. "We will not allow any American or Pakistani soldier to enter our madrassahs."

Last week a rocket was fired at a school in Miram Shah where the US troops have been staying. It missed its target.

US forces are following up rumoured sightings of Mr Haqqani and Ayman al-Zawahiri, the head of Egyptian Islamic Jihad and Osama bin Laden's most senior lieutenant. US helicopters and jets fly over the area every night and the raids are expected to spread south into other tribal areas in the days ahead.

Miram Shah, in the Pashtun-dominated North Waziristan tribal agency, is just 10 miles from the Afghan border and linked by a network of mountain paths to militant strongholds in Afghanistan.

Two decades ago mojahedin troops, backed by the US in the war against the Soviets, used the same paths and mountain hideouts. Now the people of Waziristan regard the Taliban as allies. The writ of the Pakistan government does not run to the tribal areas. The Pakistan army only began operating there in December, for the first time in its history.

General Pervez Musharraf, Pakistan's military leader, admitted on Saturday that US troops were operating in the country but he said there were "hardly a dozen" of them, they were helping with communications and they were not special forces soldiers.

However, reports from the area suggest that a much larger, heavily armed US contingent is involved in the campaign inside Pakistan.

The issue is highly sensitive for Pakistan, where anti-American sentiment now runs deep. So far Gen Musharraf appears to have stifled any criticism from Pakistan's leading Islamist clerics, who were freed without charge a month ago after weeks under house arrest.

"We don't want any military actions in Pakistan by anyone other than Pakistani troops," he said. "We want assistance in information, especially from the United States, but the action will be carried out by us."

Glad we're going after al-Qaeda hiding in Pakistan secretly or not....Jen

-- posted by JenL_2