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Market Timing: Should You Attempt It?Read the article this discussion is about
This archived discussion is "read only". « Previous 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 Next » » Normxxx - How mutual funds stole your money How mutual funds stole your money full text While your shares were handcuffed by 4 p.m. closing prices, others could wait for hours -- sometimes the next day -- before swooping in on good or bad news to make a killing. By Jon D. Markman As new allegations of Wall Street wrongdoing surface virtually every day, it's hard to escape the conclusion that three years of manic-depressive stock prices, major corporate bankruptcies, and the prosecution of analysts, insider-trading and IPO frauds did nothing to inhibit a pervasive culture of corruption in much of the mutual fund industry. It's unclear whether this came about because of pressure to produce results at any cost, a blurred line between aggressive and illegal behavior or an expectation of light punishment for out-of-bounds acts. Whatever the reason, an alarming number of fund managers and their salespeople at brokerages appear to have slipped into a habit of unlawful acts that breached their fiduciary responsibility to retail customers and cost investors billions of dollars. At first, it seemed that just a handful of fund firms were involved. But new evidence suggests that large swaths of the fund industry have systematically leveraged legal loopholes and lax enforcement by federal regulators to become the white-collar equivalent of organized crime, shaking down a quarter here and a dollar there from a public that had become its patsies. “Half the industry is probably implicated in one way or another,” says Mercer Bullard, a former Securities and Exchange Commission counsel who now teaches law at the University of Mississippi. -- posted by Normxxx » JIMMY62 - VEGas In response to message posted by Will_L:There is a lot that book learning can teach about gambling that you could learn in a longer time in the school of hard knocks. The same is true to stock market investing. A major major difference is the odds in stock market investing keep changing. Whereas Vegas games don't change that much. The range of the variables in the stock market is so very much greater that if there was not a history of an upward bias few would invest. -- posted by JIMMY62 » Kirk - Market Timing and Time Dependence Redux .A good article by Bernardo. Author: bernardo The purpose of this post is to distinguish between market timing and a variety of other investment strategies that are time-dependent, i.e., result in changes in portfolio allocation over time. In the process, we define and describe the various strategies and their implications. Market Timing and Time Dependence This is known in mathematics as optimizing a functional, where the constraints are often expressed as Legendre multipliers or the equivalent. The important point for our purposes is that in the real world finite boundary conditions and varying constraints and conditions invariably and unavoidably yield time dependent solutions to investment problems. Having said that, it's important to note that finite time spans and changes in resources and utility are hardly the only factors that induce time dependence in investments. The time dependence can result from conformance to an initial criterion. Consider, for example, the "coward's" portfolio allocation, i.e., Nx(100/N). In order to maintain the initially established target distribution, the investor rebalances periodically, which results in a time varying allocation. Granted, buying and holding any basket of stocks, whether TSM, multiple indices or individual stocks forever are extreme examples of nearly time independent strategies. But clearly, most investment prescriptions other than autopilot (designate the initial distribution but don't adjust thereafter) incur time dependence, but that does not mean by any stretch of the imagination that they are market timing. An obvious example of a subjective judgment is proclaiming tech stocks are the wave of the future (or not) and varying an allocation accordingly. Note that the criterion for market timing is not applying a subjective judgment per se, but allowing subjective judgments to actually change over time based on market externals or perceptions thereof. For example, an initial judgment electing a coward's allocation is of course subjective, but to the extent that judgment remains constant regardless of market conditions and externals, then the strategy is not market timing according to the above definition. Time Dependence of Investment Strategies BTW, whenever we refer to risks in this context we mean compensatable, non-diversifiable underlying equity risk factors (see Swedroe’s, Armstrong’s or Bill Bernstein’s books or go to Troutner’s TAM site for more detail and clarification of these terms). 4. Price-centric investing determines initial purchases of asset classes in the portfolio as well as the rebalancing of those asset classes based on valuation metrics. Price-centric differs from VMA (see below) in that the comparison with risk free is incidental and the metrics don't necessarily center on expected return alone, but favorable pricing from multiple standpoints, including but not limited to PE, PB, PS & PD. The historical basis for favorable pricing is expounded in Cochrane's seminal paper. The spiritual basis borrows from Ben Graham, but applied to asset classes rather than individual stocks. In any case, the price-centric investor decides on a target mean price (values for price metrics) and an acceptable distribution about that mean, skewed to the high side for the risk averse and low side for the risk tolerant. The means and distribution shapes will vary by investor but are selected on some rational historical basis. The distribution is invariably narrow enough to solidly protect against bubbles. Personally I favor mean PEs below 20 and PBs below 1.5, but each investor has to develop their own criteria. Be aware, however, that these values generally incur higher risk than the rest of the market. Also, there will be times when only a few asset classes satisfy the goals of the price-centric investor and they may lighten up on equities in that case because the degree of diversification falls near or below threshold. Other times many asset classes will be acceptable prey, just depends. Bottom line: The key to price-centric investing is establishing an objective set of metrics and guidelines for allocation to avert timing (subjective decisions) and maintaining strict discipline. 5. Valuation-modulated allocation (“VMA”). This approach is discussed in more detail below. To make a long story short, VMA (initially expounded by Larry Swedroe in a series of posts on Indexfunds.com) bases the decision of whether or how much to invest in particular equity asset classes on comparisons of expected returns between risk free and those equity classes. The metrics may be absolute (PEs below some historic mean for that asset class, say) or relative between asset classes. Relative values are often suggested for allocating between fixed and equities. In this case one sets a target value for the premium for expected equity returns (based on E/P, say) over risk-free (short term fixed). If the target is not met then the % allocated to equities is zero or small, if it is met handily the % may be large. VMA is based on several concepts, including RTM, the tendency of equity premia and returns to revert over time to historical values, and more importantly, to the Cochrane arguments about the performance of low priced stocks (topics poorly treated by Ben Stein but better expressed in Swedroe’s new book). Lastly, depending on where the bars are set, VMA by its very nature will protect investors against the infrequent bubble in the market as a whole or in particular asset classes. The above approaches, while admittedly time dependent to varying degrees, do not constitute market timing for several reasons, mainly: (a) They are essentially passive and mechanical Jeff Troutner disagrees and claims any system that attempts to value the market, even using objective standards or metrics, is by definition active (often referred to as “dynamic asset allocation”). However, Bill Bernstein’s discussion of dynamic asset allocation, although somewhat evasive and tentative, appears on the whole to be quite tolerant of valuation based strategies. In addition, I believe Larry’s position on the issue is that VMA is not market timing in the conventional sense, and constitutes a legitimate approach to passive equity investment as long as it is implemented objectively & mechanistically. In contrast, true market timing is characterized by subjective assessments of where markets are headed, based largely on externals, and sometimes on market internals as well. In market timing time dependence is at the core of an active strategy, in contrast to passive investing, where time dependence is incidental, dictated by mechanistic factors bereft of any subjective judgments on the part of the investor. Agnostic Equity Diversification IMHO, all investors should place all the money they can't afford to lose in risk-free. Only put into equities what you can afford to lose in its entirety. I readily concede there are other approaches, preferences and opinions on how to allocate the risk free portion, so there's certainly some latitude. The weakest argument IMHO is to allocate based on the global asset weighting of fixed & equities, which is obviously absolutely & totally irrelevant to any particular individual's situation. Anyway, the guiding principle here is building a safe core, we can argue how best to accomplish that goal, but in any case the diversification (lack of correlation) angle is incidental and secondary to that decision. Second, if you think there is a good amount of efficiency in the market or that you're incapable of exploiting whatever inefficiencies there might be, then your guiding principle ought to be passive equity investing, and what's more agnostic composition and time dependence to allocation. Agnosticism is best implemented by assigning some form of equality to all equities in the world which meet appropriate standards (so that only compensatable risks remain), and acquiring them at no one particular time but continuously (however, since we're all dead in the long run there are built in limits). The idea behind agnosticism is unbiased distribution of risk and reward across the full range of the spectrum without playing favorites or making any subjective judgments whatsoever. In any case, using a modal approach means we better ferret out the "best" (most nearly orthogonal & complete) basis set of quasi-independent, low correlation variables. FF have proposed some of the most revered variables ("factors") among the academic community, certainly not unique but quite credible nonetheless. Forget couches, coffee houses or whatever. Strive to invest agnostically, and to the extent you falter, lament your deficiencies but never throw in the towel. So if we wish to consider adopting VMA, we have to bite the bullet and assess effectiveness based on “logic”, gut feel or common sense. Of course, when data are insufficient, each proponent of an argument believes that theirs and only theirs is the one sensible and logical alternative, and we’re unalterably reduced to using subjective judgments in the decision process. Now as far as ease of implementation, there’s a complex behavioral issue, whether the average investor will in practice be able to implement and stick with the strategy. Investors who are able to do so might be called “sophisticated”. It’s important to note that intelligence is a necessary but not sufficient condition for sophistication, and the two should not be confused. Anyway, I’m going to omit the behavioral issues here and assume that an investor who chooses to do so can successfully implement the prescribed strategy. 1. Determine a nominal allocation between equities and fixed based on risk tolerance and utility (obviously) a highly individual choice. 2. Select a nominal allocation highly diversified between asset classes by style, size, domestic vs. foreign, and additional components such as EM and RE. One possible choice is equal weighting all of the chosen classes (sometimes called “agnostic” or “coward’s portfolio”), but other allocations skewing toward historically higher performers are also possible choices. Perhaps the simplest yardstick for estimating equity returns is E/P, but DDM or other more detailed criteria can also be used. The funds earmarked to the asset classes that don’t pass the valuation test can go to fixed income or redistributed among the surviving asset classes, depending on an assessment of risk tolerance. (The redistribution to other equities would appear somewhat more consistent choice with the initial allocation between fixed and equities, but one might also argue for shifting temporarily to fixed until the excluded asset classes pass the valuation test.) 4. Implement the selected equity allocation using passive index mutual funds or ETFs. 5. Rebalance periodically (every 1 to 2 years). Exclude asset classes that don’t pass the valuation test, reincorporate those that do. Among the remaining components, redistribute (rebalance) to the initial allocation %s. This is easier with equal weighting, but more complicated for skewed allocations. The above defines a consistent strategy, which says nothing about its effectiveness or ease of implementation. That apparently remains a matter of contention among the experts. VMA falls into the category of a time dependent strategy but arguably, according to the definitions given above, not "market timing". In VMA an initial metric is established, namely, the returns of asset classes compared to risk free, and a mechanistic response such as "allocate equities as Nx(100/N), but if imputed returns on an any asset class falls below 75 basis pts compared to TIPs, then readjust the equity allocation among the surviving asset classes". Of course, the latter prescription is just an example, there are many other possible variants. But because there is no change in the initial judgment or criterion, and market externals do not come into play in the investment decision at all, the strategy is not market timing according to the definitions stated above. The time variation is incidental to the strategy, not the direct result of an active decision process where the initial strategy, criteria and judgments are allowed to change over time as they are in "market timing". Just for clarification, my use of VMA or coward's allocations as examples above are not necessarily endorsements of these strategies. The objective is to distinguish between true "market timing" strategies and those that happen to be time dependent but don't rely on market externals or changing judgments or criteria over time. In fact: 1. VMA need not imply any change in the split betwen equities & fixed, rather, just realignments within the existing equity allocation 2. VMA does not depend on any externals, only market internals; the data ideally come from the asset classes themselves, not Wall St, talking heads or astrologers 3. The formula for applying VMA can have a range of deltas, that's OK, but arguably too large a range incurs the danger of subjective rather than mechanistic judgment, ie, bad habits 4. VMA is one among several valid (and self-consistent) approaches to portfolio risk management 5. In the case of VMA investors reap the benefits of consciously addressing several pivotal issues: So whether or nor the investor decides to actually invoke VMA, he or she will already have benefited substantially from seriously and honestly tackling the fundamental issues which underlie VMA. Time Dependence due to Changes in Risk Profile Recall according to MPT & FF the primary risk factor is equity risk, so the main determinant of portfolio allocation is the distribution between risky assets (such as equities and LT bonds) and nearly risk free assets (such as cash, high quality ST individual bonds, TIPS and I-bonds. Our desire to incur risk is determined by many factors, such as age, temperament, financial condition, health, family matters and the like. One important determinant is the progress in wealth accumulation. When one has accumulated sufficient resources, such as after a large market run up, then the need to take risk diminishes significantly (however, the desire may still be there for inveterate gamblers). Investors who shift their allocations due to changes in risk profile alone, not their perception of where the market is headed, are not at all practicing market timing. Larry and others explain the whole subject very well in their books, so elaborating further here is not necessary. Dialogue -- posted by Kirk » Normxxx - Positive thinking pays off? Positive thinking pays off? full text By Mark Hulbert, CBS.MarketWatch.com Last Update: 12:01 AM ET Dec. 18, 2003 ANNANDALE, Va. (CBS.MW) - Bulls have done better than bears, it would seem. The top performing newsletters are 31/2 times more bullish than the bottom performers. In fact, there is not a single out-and-out bearish newsletter among the five best newsletters of the past decade. Instead, three are outright bullish, a fourth is on the bullish side of neutral, while the fifth is on the fence. In contrast, four of the five bottom-ranked newsletters are bearish, some aggressively so. There is only one bull. This contrast is noteworthy, particularly since the ranking on which this contrast is based focuses on risk-adjusted performance over a 10-year period. Those 10 years contain both a strong bull market as well as a devastating bear market, during which the stock market on balance performed no better nor no worse than its long-term historical average. In other words, there should be no bullish or bearish bias to focusing on the consensus opinions of the best and worst performers over the past decade. That's why it behooves us to pay attention that the top performers are so much more bullish than the bottom performers. more. . . -- posted by Normxxx » mdorsey - Here is how market timing works.
-- posted by mdorsey » Kirk - Re: Here is how market timing works. .In response to message posted by mdorsey: Congratulations on your great success with your BOND investments! My portfolios are about 30% in fixed income and I agree they have been stellar the past five years! but Pay attention to my 5 yr graph at the bottom. If you pick the right stocks, you can beat bonds even after a terrible equity bear market WITHOUT market timing. BTW, you've posted elsewhere that you have been short QQQ for much of this year. Why is that negative 50% or so return not included in your "market timing success" list? For anyone to make a claim to be a good market timer, I expect them to list a portfolio of ALL their recommended investments with how that total portfolio has done. Otherwise, you are just touting your successful ideas and ignoring the failures. Does that make sense to you? Once again, congratulations on your great success with your BOND investments! Bonds vs Equities YTD Graph Bonds vs Equities 3 Month Graph Bonds vs Equities 5 yr Graph
-- posted by Kirk » Kirk - Specialists are Bulish .specialists are boolish December 21st, 2003 5:00pm ET http://www.siliconinvestor.com/stocktalk... The Specialist Short Ratio plunged last week to its lowest reading since the S&P500 Performance after the Specialist Ratio falls 7%+ From a longer-term perspective, a Specialist Short Ratio this low indicates Long-term S&P Timing with the Specialist Short Ratio Along similar lines, while specialists are holding a near-record low level of Dec 22nd excerpt: ... Turning to the long-term outlook for stocks, the latest short interest figures Total Short Interest makes Lower Lows *Courtesy Markettells.com, used with permission
-- posted by Kirk » Kirk - NYSE MEMBER NET BUY/SELL .To:da_cheif who wrote (12712) From: rossmrm Thursday, Jan 1, 2004 1:06 PM Respond to of 12714 NYSE MEMBER NET BUY/SELL: As a rule NYSE member firms are net sellers of 12/12 12/05 11/28 11/21 11/14 (and that doesn't include the 11/7 week which was +540,000 x 1000!! one of the largest i've seen). NYSE SHORT INTEREST RATIO: Is the total outstanding shares sold short NYSE Short Interest Ratio...: 12/15 11/15 10/15 09/15 08/15 -- posted by Kirk » bob90245 - Re: Specialists are Bulish In response to message posted by Kirk:Here's another article: http://www.trendmacro.com/a/luskin/20031... BTW, perhaps the Specialist Short-Sale Ratio should be among the listing of sentiment indicators. I don't see it very often. Is there a website that keeps an update of the ratio? Bob -- posted by bob90245 » Kirk - A winning oddsmaker's '04 Dow call ."Over-under at 11,350" A winning oddsmaker's '04 Dow call Lupo nailed nervy 10,000+ bet on 2003 close By Chris Pummer, CBS MarketWatch SAN FRANCISCO (CBS.MW) - In September 2002, just weeks before the bear market's bottom, Las Vegas bookmaker Joe Lupo made a startling call on where the Dow would close the year 2003. With the index at 7,420, Lupo set the odds of the Dow ending this past year below 6,000 at 100-to-1 -- and near even-money of 7-to-5 for a close between 10,000 and 11,000. Lupo's odds-setting, made at CBS MarketWatch's request, prompted hundreds of reader emails calling him a crackpot, and accusing me of pumping up the market for my company's self-interest and sending gullible investors to their doom. A 41 percent rise in the Dow later, his calculations proved to be right on the money. "I wasn't going out on a limb predicting a rebound," said the Stardust's former race and sports book manager, now vice president of operations for the Borgata in Atlantic City, both casino properties of Boyd Gaming (BYD: news, chart, profile). "In doing my homework, maybe I talked to people with more positive outlooks," he said. "I just had a different outlook and got a little lucky as well." Given that success, I contacted Lupo this week to set odds on where the Dow will close 2004. As daring as his '03 call was, his odds on this year's final Dow number are far more cautious: Under 8,000: 100-1 Lupo, a professional oddsmaker for 13 years, has set odds at the media's request for such things as the Oscars, the MTV awards and the winner of the Survivor TV shows. He also set odds on whether President Clinton would be impeached, resign or ride out Monicagate and on who will turn out to be the "Deep Throat" who dimed out President Nixon to Washington Post reporters Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein. U.S. gambling laws prohibit wagering on anything but racing and sporting events, so Lupo's market odds won't open for bets. Still, he takes professional pride in all his odds-setting. The safest bet on the Dow's performance this year, as Lupo sees it, is that it will rise 5.2 percent to 14.8 percent. Given that modest range, I asked him for an "over-under" number that amounts to a 50-50 bet, which he set at 11,350 - an 8.6 percent gain. Setting this year's odds, he said, was actually much harder than for 2003 because the market was bound to pop big after three down years (The only time U.S. stocks fell four consecutive years was from 1929-to-1932). "This will probably be one of the more 'normal' years we've seen in a while," Lupo said. "There will be some pressure to increase interest rates to keep everything in check, and there will probably be little change in the market in an election year." He set 5-to-1 odds on the Dow surpassing 12,000 because that would require a 15 percent-plus gain and put the index beyond it's all-time high of 11,723 on Jan. 14, 2000. "It's always tough to set a new record. You wouldn't expect Barry Bonds to break the home-run record again the year after he hit 73," Lupo said. "When you're putting up odds on a repeat champion, you have to realize the champion doesn't repeat a lot." Still, on a positive note, Lupo sees the possibility of the Dow gaining 25 percent and surpassing 13,000 as far more likely - at 20-to-1 - as it losing 25 percent and ending the year below 8,000 - at 100-to-1. "I'm not an analyst, I'm an odds maker, and I can't tell you I know as much as market analysts," Lupo said. "But often, people read too much into things when the obvious is right in front of them." -- posted by Kirk « Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 Next » Please follow the guidelines set forth in the Suite101 Posting Etiquette when adding to the discussion. |
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