XLF, Banking and Financial Sector Stocks
- Kirk
- dewam
- Thruhiker
- dewam
- Kirk
- JenL_2
- Thruhiker
- Kirk
- Rande
- Kirk
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» Kirk - BTO
Do you have a phone number I can call for info?I like the BAC position. I hope they still have it. Great value there. I would hope they have some of the leaders too.
It is hard to say if value will win next year. JoeB seems to say the leaders will continue to lead so you might think C and WFC would look better and get a higher multiple (if they follow what is happening in the NASDAQ this year) while the laggards might keep their same multiple. I guess that is the downside risk. I'd like to get a fund that has a mixture or leaders AND laggards so I have both bases covered.
-- posted by Kirk
» dewam - more
Thruhiker, I found this from one of the links.http://www.closed-endfunds.com/scripts/f...
I don't know how often it is updated, or how accurate it is. They do have current holdings, and BAC isn't as high as reported at another time. Den
-- posted by dewam
» Kirk - More on BTO
Good BTO Stuff DenHere are some more I got from those pages:
John Hancock Bank & Thrift Oppty Fd (BTO / NYSE)
http://www.closed-endfunds.com/scripts/f...
A Nice PDF summary
http://www.closed-endfunds.com/scripts/f...
The PDF does a good job with nice colors. It gives NAV and Mkt returns. It seems that the NAV return trails the Market return every year, even in 1997 where the MKT did 99.83% and the NAV "only" did 60.44%.
Can someone explain this more? I would think you could multiply these returns and get the overall NAV discount, but that doesn't seem to be the case either
Also, it has "advisor fees" which tell me that they pay John Hancock 1.15% and then they charge 0.25% for administrative fees for a total annual fee of 1.40%. Not too bad I suppose but it is higher than FSRBX which charges 1.16% (FSRBX has a 3% load unless you have a large account at Fidelity and they waive the load)
One last question I have: "Is it a reasonable expectation for BTO to have its discount to NAV get smaller if the sector comes into favor?" Comments Rande?
-- posted by Kirk
» JenL_2 - More on BTO
Den – Thanks for the info on BTO. I called Schwab to ask how to purchase a closed-end fund like BTO. They said that you trade it just like a stock. The Schwab on-line research center didn’t have much information on BTO. They did have chart like this one, that shows that the stock price hasn’t changed much in 5 years:More on BTO at…
……Jen
-- posted by JenL_2
» Thruhiker - Not a long term investment
BTO is not a long term investment for me.As Kirk pointed out, there are good funds with lower expense ratios.
I believe the current discount is excessive and will narrow next year when the sector comes back into favor.
Its 8 bucks a share. I'll revisit this discussion a year from now if we're all still here (or when I sell if prior to then) and compare it to the performance of the total market index.
-- posted by Thruhiker
» Kirk - XLF or stocks? Value or Growth?
On SI:To: Justa Werkenstiff who wrote (10434)
From: Justa Werkenstiff
Tuesday, December 14, 1999 11:41 AM ET
Reply # of 10441
** Justa's Juicy Bank Stocks **
Bank One (ONE)
First Union (FTU)
Washington Mutual (WM)
Amsouth (ASO)
Financial Sector (XLF)
Buy the slowdown. The economy is going to slow. Either the Greenman makes the economy slow or it slows on its own accord. So interest should will decline at some point. Plus, there is a takeover catalyst at work with the passage of the Gramm-Leach-Biley bill. And if you want to use the pooling method to get it done it must be done by January 1, 2001. Moreover, these stocks are cheap and yield dividends ranging from 3.5% to 5%. The main risk is timing but there may be some earnings risk as well. But the timing is pretty good here because nobody wants these stocks and there is tax loss selling here that would make any bottom fisher grin with joy.
and My Reply:
Good list Justa, I like that sector for new money as well as profits taken out of the hot technology stocks...
My twist on your banks... add a few winners to the losers.
They may behave as the Techs did... the winners continue to attract funds while the losers continue to lose. Look at how LAM vs UTEK has performed or others in the sectors where doing really well is greatly rewarded. Joe B says he expects the present NAZ leaders to lead next year as well. This all tells me having SOME of the winners in a bank portfolio is wise.
I would like to add WFC and C to your list as well as the loser this yr BAC just for diversity. With Rubin at C, you have to like it for international growth.
http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=one+ftu+wm+...
Overall, XLF may be the call since it has winners AND losers (value and growth).
What do you think?
-- posted by Kirk
» Rande - Kirk,
Kirk,If only the bonds would see it our way. Getting killed today on the retail sales report. Haven't checked the financials, but would imagine they're not fairing well as the 30-year gets back up to 6.3%. My own views on potential for slowing as we get into 2000 are out there and even as things are, it's a seeming puzzle how the bond market can be so paranoid (see my post at "Ask" about this morning's WSJ piece on the unemployment rate and inflation). But maybe the bond market doesn't care about economic reality. Maybe all it cares about is Federal Reserve reactoin. What's that old saying (think it was Keynes) about not trying to pick the most beautiful girl in the beauty contest, but trying to pick the one you think the judges will select? Maybe it's not so much a matter of the fundamental probabilities as it is trying to predict what the Fed will do and when they'll do it.
-- posted by Rande
» Kirk - Rates and Banks
Rates and BanksYes Rande, I agree this is strange with rates back up to 6.30%.
Didn't everyone say consumer spending would be up before Y2K to stock up?
Also, people are getting raises and huge XMas bonuses and prices are NOT going up so the wise spend the money NOW if they think inflation will make the prices higher in the future.
Add in Tax Loss Selling and I see a huge buy now in the sector. I can't think of a winning strategy and I am underweighted presently so XLF may be just the right call for my PERSONAL SITUATION. Perhaps buy a chunk now and buy more if we go lower between now and the century date change is the ticket?
Bond often over react to news then they think about it and come back down... XLF might be a buy at this instant...
-- posted by Kirk
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