Day Trading: Facts, Fiction and Discussion
- RandeS
- TONYBRIG
- TONYBRIG
- KirkL
- matttheduck
- TONYBRIG
- KirkL
- TONYBRIG
- TONYBRIG
- TONYBRIG
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» RandeS - I like the gambling analogy best when it comes to Day Trading.
I like the gambling analogy best when it comes to Day Trading. Just like those who venture through the casino doors, there are three types:1. A VERY small percentage who can do well at the right game (poker, craps, or blackjack -- the rest are for true suckers) because they are knowledgeable and (most importantly) disciplined.
2. A VERY small percentage, due to deep psychological problems, become addicted and loose everything -- wealth, job, family, and friends.
3. The VAST majority go out those casino doors with a whole lot less than when they first came in.
Casting a positive light on Day Trading does a great disservice to those who confuse a bull market with personal ability.
-- posted by RandeS
» TONYBRIG - Just the truth!
Not a favorable lite but the facts without slanting it towards CONSERVATISM or FATALISM.How's it go?
UNTIL YOU'VE WALKED IN THOSE SHOES!
How many of you out there actually even tried
Day Trading?
Even on paper?
Like I said TRUTH WILL OUT.
My belief is it will endure.
Technologies will get better.
Day traders will with experience have more
SAVVY.
Salons (not the drinking type) will have to be
more competitive and you will see.
Wanna Bet?
VBOLHH
-- posted by TONYBRIG
» TONYBRIG - Round 4
(Round 4 of 15) For the Championship of the Street)A successful Day Trader:
Or any kind of Trader or (Gambler) long-term is called an
Investor by Rande and Kirk and others. I'm not so sure- but will use that
so that we all are talking bout the same breed; is one that has positive results.
For that matter a succesful PROFESSIONAL is a WINNER IN HIS/HER endeveor.
One gains OPTIMUM KNOWLEDGE IN A SUBJECT by doing...............successfully.
Not by reporting on how the losers did.
Or by taking some excerpts of something the Media wrote which we dont even know
if it is true. For it is the job of the Media to report (not always) Scandal and Bad-news.
It makes (the public believes) for good reading.
When you see someone like MCKEEVER on CNBC a few months ago report that
50k is an average month (winning) then and you look at the man and analyze what he
has to say. Then that is getting it first-hand from a real DAY TRADER.
When one reads an article written by John Doe that reports on Mary Jane's
(maybe) Day Trading school and it goes on with the same crap that 2/3 are losing.
Then to me that is not first-hand and probably inaccurate or at least not germane
to the whole pie.
When you hear that Levitt said (the chances are pretty good-me thinks) that
he has never even used the NET; 66/67 in one place lost then you are reading
HOG-WASH, LIES, INACCURACIES.
Look at where he is coming from and you can pretty much gauge what he is
going to say. He is a LOSER (in this area) and his rhetoric proves it.
He wants to disseminate to the world his viewpoints on DAY TRADING so that
the world will agree with his GARBAGE.
He cant do it so hence he wants you to believe that it cant be done.
A DAY TRADER is one who WINS. The LOSERS are just that LOSERS and to report
on them without saying they are WANNABES OR LOSERS is inaccurate.
Real knowledge on any subject has to do with DOING the subject by STEPS
in GRADES. First THEORY until one has the feel for it and understands the
WORDS, TERMS, MECHANICS of what the hell he/she is gonna do and then
gradually HANDS ON. Preferably from a successful (FRIEND) or one who doesnt
have $ as the only criteria to teach you. Then still by steps (and affinity) for the subject
is most important .........an ever so gradual learning process (with judgement and
understanding) and winning all the way to prove competency and understanding.
This coupled with co-mingling with other successful PROS gives one the BASE
to HIGHER EVOLUTION.
To just start trading is very HAIRY BALLSY RISKY ETC.
Some wannabe DAY TRADERS dont even know the rudiments of the Market and
yet they want to be in the BIG LEAGUES! They get what they deserve in any
ENDEVEOR. The fat man with the CIGAR will always be there to take ones $
In any FIELD.
Yes there should be rules/regulations but across the boards.
On the other hand the CONSERVATIVES who are so set in there ways like..............
THE RADIO MAN will often knock NEW THINGS specially that which they cant
UNDERSTAND too well. It is only when they realize that they are losing by this
stance that they throw in the towel and acquiesce.
For the CONSERVATIVE wants to HOLD THINGS STILL or at the best just a
GRADUAL INCREASE. They cant stand to see the world changing so fast.
It upsets them to no end it SENDS THEM UP THE WALL! No they dont always
admit it since they want to appear that they fit it. But SUSPENDERS and a BELT?
By their ATTITUDE in life know them!
So my point on DAY TRADERS is simply this:
When (I) hear one caution complain criticize naysay.................TOO MUCH.
I laugh and thank them for telling me that they know NOTHING MUCH on the subject.
How's it go again? Dont judge until you have walked so many miles in the SHOES?
Your turn!
VBOLHH
That doesnt mean
-- posted by TONYBRIG
» KirkL - Tony, as gentlemen, we should agree to disagree.
Tony, as gentlemen, we should agree to disagree.To me, your arguments are noise and need not be refuted.
Why? Tony, you invented words that I did not say and then went on to argue against them. . This is not a tactic that I will get trapped into answering. For my point of view, the discussion is over when this happens.
I remain convinced that Brinker, Levitt, The Post and other respectable news papers are doing their readers a service to warn of the difficulties in becoming a good day trader.
Also, if you "follow the money" in the zero sum game, the newbies get their money taken by the "old pro's" so it behooves you as a self proclaimed successful day trader to want more new day traders so you can add their asset base to your winnings.
For me, I have no hidden agenda other than to spread the truth. I might even do some day trading in the future for fun, but that doesn't change the facts.
-- posted by KirkL
» matttheduck - day traders are winner
here is an excerpt from tony's message above:A DAY TRADER is one who WINS. The LOSERS are just that LOSERS and to report on them without saying they are WANNABES OR LOSERS is inaccurate.
i've never daytraded stocks in my life, but i've made loads o' coin in this market. by tony's definition, i'm a daytrader.
people who quit their unrelated-to-the-investment business jobs to take some training and become a professional daytrader are being cleaned out. this is easily discernible by listening to the radio ads for the combination schools/trading centers. if most of the people they are training are going on to become successful daytraders, they would shortly have no reason to continue advertising. after all, there are only so many seats/computers in a daytrading den. there has been no slackening in the advertising rate in portland, nor do i expect there to be any as long as there's another pigeon to be plucked.
on the other hand, i think there are plenty of people who make their living by daytrading. most of these work for an investment firm and have for a long time. these are not the people we should be discussing. they are legitimate professionals in the investment industry, and live or die by their calls.
the first group, however, is in the "get rich quick" mold and while i don't doubt the lucky/smart few make a profit over time, and a very, very small minority are able to actually make their living from daytrading, i am just as certain that the majority get cleaned out of their $25,000 or $50,000 over a few months and have, hopefully, learned an important lesson.
i also believe that the real test of the daytrading phenomenon is what happens to the ditech's of the world when we get a bear market, or even a sideways market. the daytrading fad will die quickly.
-- posted by matttheduck
» TONYBRIG - Rebuttal
Kirk:I never invent words and atribute it as what one
Says. So lets be fair about this (its all in our
Posts) what do you feel I invented?
You are wrong to say that it was just NOISE
as I presented a fair showing of what I personally
know about Day Trading.
It is unfair for you to try to embarass me on the
board with a generality without giving specifics.
I know about Day Trading and you do not and have
admitted it.
So again I say show the specifics.
VBOLHH
Thruhiker:
You are correct, a Bear Market or correction
will show their Mettle or not. Thats why I say
only time can prove it.
We have already seen a tremendous decrease in volatility specially in the NUT stocks.
This should make for a harder time for the Day
Trader.
I do not personally care if there is to be a
Day Trading Profession or not. Doube if it will
make much difference $ to me.
All I ask is that one doesnt knock something unless he/she is sure.
Kangaroo courts dont get it with me.
If there is a Day Trader Profession in say 2 yrs
then it will be the proof. If not then this will
disprove it.
In any reporting it is not good to take just a
few case histories and make a judgement based on
this (fact?)
A truly scientific study should contain actual
hands on learning.
-- posted by TONYBRIG
» KirkL - Sorry Tony, I am not know for my tact.
Sorry Tony, I am not know for my tact. I keep practicing and pretend to improve.That is the statement you went on to argue at great length against.
A successful Day Trader:
Or any kind of Trader or (Gambler) long-term is called an Investor by Rande and Kirk and others....
I do not remember saying an investor needed to be successful. The statement isn't a proper characterization of my beliefs either.
Thus it is called a "straw man argument".
It is my opinion that day traders are gamblers. IF there was a system that really worked, you can bet someone would write a computer program to do it faster than a human and clean up all the money to be made. Now, I think it is a race or game of chicken between day traders and some win, but the majority lose.
-- posted by KirkL
» TONYBRIG - Gamblers All
And it is my opinion that all Stock MarketInvesting as it is called is Gambling.
Short term/Long term it does not matter the time.
Too many risks out there which is one of the parts of Gambling.
What happens if a Bear Market presents itself
and lasts 3 yrs just as an (Investor) is ready
to retire?
VBOLHH
-- posted by TONYBRIG
» TONYBRIG - More on Straw Man
Now that I have reaearched it some.............I believe you have put your foot in your mouth.
Is you who has the weak argument.
citing Levitt's nonsensical vague GENERALITY
66/67 GARBAGE. Hardly a creditable statistic
without any specifics behind it.
VBOLHH
-- posted by TONYBRIG
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