Honey's Brinker Beehive--Not a Fan Club

» honeyoneohone - An Archive For Brinker's Critics

.
Bob Brinker has many fans who respect and follow him. They have many forums to express their viewpoints, including six hours per week on his radio talk-show.

This thread will present opposing viewpoints.

Since Brinker is a public figure, constructive criticism is "fair game" and indeed, should be welcomed by Mr. Brinker.

The purpose of this thread is to keep a "blog" and an archive of commentaries so that readers who want to know the "other side of the story" will have a convenient place to access it.

Will L. is one of the most knowledgeable and prolific critics of Bob Brinker. Will is an entertaining and very informative writer. Many of his commentaries will be presented here.

-- posted by honeyoneohone

Permalink Print Discussion Email Discussion Join the latest discussions

» honeyoneohone - Bob Brinker Doublespeak

.
In answer to this question:

"What is your proof that it was "a carefully chosen caller?"

Will L. wrote:

" Every caller to Brinker is carefully chosen to weed out any possiblity that his previous marketiming faux paux or serious f'ups are not brought up.

Note how evasive he was with the old geezer who had recently subscribed and wanted to get into the Rydex Nasdaq 100 fund but didn't have 25 grand. Brinker slurred and quickly got by that QQQQ letters so quickly that most could not hear his response.

If you don't believe Brinker's callers are "carefully chosen" try something like this.

1) Bob, why did you not go to 100% cash during the worst bear since the 30s?

2) Bob, can you give me a reference in your extensive reading list that recommends marketiming like you practice?

3) Bob, I am still holding TEFQX which you had as a buy from 18.00 down to 4.00 and then said it was a hold and the very next month it was gone from the newsletter. Am I supposed to still be holding it?

4) Bob, did you ever go totally to cash in anticipation of a bear market and if so was there a bear following your action?

5) If one cannot predict interest rates a year out Mr. Brinker, how can one possible predict the level of the entire stock market a year out?

6) If you could really time the stock market wouldn't such information be more lucrative to be used for your own investing or sold for billions to people like George Soros?

7) Bob, a few years ago you said repeatedly
"The way you make money in a bear market is to play the counter trend rallies"
Why are you no longer saying that?

8) Bob, now you say "The way you make money in a bear market is to play the cyclical bull markets". Could you give us an example where you called an upcoming bear market and went totally to cash, and then successfully bought AND SOLD successive cyclical bull markets in that bear?"

9) Once years ago you claimed you changed your model after your mistake in calling for a bear that didn't come in the late 80s. You claimed at one point that you had back-tested the model and it worked. Months later when asked about back testing the model, you said you did not do so and that it would be foolish to do that. Which is it Bob?

In other words Fish--ask him any quesiton about "timing model" or previous moves and see if his questions are not carefully screened. How elementary."

-- posted by honeyoneohone

Permalink Print Discussion Email Discussion Join the latest discussions

» honeyoneohone - "Too Funny for Words" Heard on Moneytalk

.
Author: Will L.

"Well Mr. "%#$@&", I must agree that NOONE seems to have much to say about ole Bobby these days but I did hear him say something today that was too funny for words.

He told some Goober that "we don't believe in short term marketiming" .
"Short term marketiming is impossible but we believe in long term marketiming".

Now this comes from a man who sent each and every subscriber a two to 4 month timing recommendation to "invest" (read gamble) up to 1/3 of their portfolio . At the time for months Brinker had ballyhooed his ability to do short term timing. He used all kinds of [“BS”] jive to convince people just like he uses to convince them he can do long term timing.

Now what he claimed was "the way to make money in a bear market" he labels as impossible and gave the guy the impression that it was only a fool's game.

Why? because Brinker simply guessed wrong. If he would have guessed right, he'd still be claiming he could do that "short term timing".

It's only a matter of time until goobers and geezers who replaced the disillusioned bots that were QQQed to death, find out that Brinker can't do long term marketiming either. The advantage for Brinker though is that inertia is easier to justify if your call is for years rather than months.

The reason people don't talk about him is that most people see marketiming as a scam. The dull and the gullible bite on Brinker's pitch. I'm guessing he shares marketing lists with Enzyte."

[ Kirk's Editor Comment: “BS” used to replace original word not suitable for our audience. ]

-- posted by honeyoneohone

Permalink Print Discussion Email Discussion Join the latest discussions

» rasputin - Re: An Archive For Brinker's Critics

In response to An Archive For Brinker's Critics posted by honeyoneohone:

Hey Honey,

Good to see you starting a thread. Most excellent. And always a pleasure to see those handsome kitties.

-- posted by rasputin

Permalink Print Discussion Email Discussion Join the latest discussions

» Kirk - Re: An Archive For Brinker's Critics

.
In response to An Archive For Brinker's Critics posted by honeyoneohone:

Good luck with your new forum.

I may not agree with all of Will’s views on all subjects, but nobody can truthfully say he is not a great writer. I look forward to finding “The Best of Will” here where it will be easy to find. What a great idea!

Remember to tell your friends to subscribe to this topic. Then they can click "what's new" on the left under "Member Central" to get a list of their bookmarked/subscribed topics. It looks like this is also now on the top banner for easier access.

-- posted by Kirk

Permalink Print Discussion Email Discussion Join the latest discussions

» honeyoneohone - Re: An Archive For Brinker's Critics

In response to Re: An Archive For Brinker's Critics posted by rasputin:

.
Thank you Ras and Kirk.

Ras, I especially appreciate that you welcome me in spite of the fact that you are mostly a Brinker fan.

-- posted by honeyoneohone

Permalink Print Discussion Email Discussion Join the latest discussions

» honeyoneohone - Can or Does Brinker Time the Market?

.
A friend asks Will about Brinker's Saturday show--Brinker gets confused and then angry:

"Did you catch the call from Bob in Mansfield Ohio. His second question was how to protect a large position in one stock in his 401k. Bob first told him to sell calls then he realized he should have said puts. Bob said sell puts. I am sure the average goober who listens can't explain a put from a call and if you listen to what Bob was saying he barely understands it himself.

Then there was Lisa. She must work in real state. She tried to make Bob aware of a recent change in the law that would allow an earlier caller to do the tax free property exchange that Bob told him couldn't be done. Bob really gets mad when someone corrects him. It is fun to watch."

Here is Will's answer:

"No, I didn't hear much other than the caller he was telling that he didn't believe in short term marketiming, but was real sure he could do the long term marketiming.

It was funny the other day when we were talking about Brinker's comments in the newsletter more than a year and a half after his January 2000 "tactical asset allocation" call. You could see that in Brinker's silly ramblings he didn't have a clue what the market was going to do. Month after month he was calling for a great move up of the entire market and then he would sell out of the QQQQS (remember he still had some in the market by 2/3 and everyone that followed his advice between 1/3 and 2/3).

He had all kinds of verbage trying to snow the goobers and geezers. He tried in those newsletters to twist his QQQQ call and extend it. Obviously what he was doing is [“BS”]ing and hoping. Brinker like a gambler who just can't believe he's wrong on a superbowl bet was down by 3 touchdowns with 5 minutes to play and in his mythical egocentric world, he declared "overtime". Another analogy would be as his horse was approaching the finish line in a race dead last-tell those who bought his prediction of a win--"keep going another mile or 3".

Brinker can't stand losing. Brinker seldom takes a position unless forced to do so. He wants it unclear when he moves the goal posts, goes into overtime, or pushes back the finish line. Clear concise language and precise calls are not conducive to spin. Brinker depends on spin and [“BS”] to sell his rag.

When he is caught spinning or [“BS”]ing, he gets very angry. It's fun to think of those veins popping out the wrinkles in that long past his prime neck as he spits into the microphone to someone who dares set him straight. It's the same vision one imagined when Bob Brinker was posting as Don Lane banging those keys and spewing his venom and lying about himself. The only better picture I'd guess is when he has those huge bets at all those casinos that he brags he has to go to and his team loses. Damn that would be fun to watch!!"

[ Kirk's Editor Comment: “BS” used to replace original word not suitable for our audience. ]

-- posted by honeyoneohone

Permalink Print Discussion Email Discussion Join the latest discussions

» honeyoneohone - Why Did Brinker Stop Discussing the Market for Years?

.
A rather comprehensive five years of Brinker history by Will L:

"Brinker as you know "since 2000" has removed first 60% and then another 5% from the market and at no time in doing so did he claim there was even a bear market coming, let alone the worst bear since the depression. Prior to 2000 Brinker claimed repeatedly that only a fool would have any money in the market when there was a bear coming and that he would be totally 100% out of the market. Only in retrospect has he claimed he was calling for a bear market at the time of his "tactical asset allocation"--at the time he wanted it both ways--typical Brinker [“BS”].

A little later in 2000 brinker urged all subscribers to place a a big BET (using your "winning streak" hubris) on the QQQQs, the most volatile and overvalued section of the market. In fact the Qs were the only area that had not already seriously corrected. He jumped into the Qs in the 80s and rode them all the way down to 19.

Brinker hid from any discussion of the stock market for the next two years. In 2003 re-entered the market with the remainder of the funds not pummeled in the bear market or lost on the worst short term timing idea in history. It was such an easy call that I predicted it months before he did it and posted a note on 101 urging those silly enough to want to know, that his call was imminent about 24 hrs prior to him making it.

So I love the analogy of a "winning streak" to promote Bob Brinker. It is indeed fitting. In the end like any gambler you are most likley going to be ruined financially, but ah the streak, that's what it is all about.

Even during "the streak"--one has to hide a call and reshape another to make it look good. Typical gambler hype...forget the losses and trumpet the wins. The good thing is that these days from the types that say they subscribe, they are risking hundreds to a few thousand dollars, not the tens or hundreds of thousands the more affluent and market savvy(so they thought) who followed Brinker's BS in his hayday."

[ Kirk's Editor Comment: “BS” used to replace original word not suitable for our audience. ]

-- posted by honeyoneohone

Permalink Print Discussion Email Discussion Join the latest discussions

» pete2214 - Re: Why Did Brinker Stop Discussing the Market for Years?

In response to Why Did Brinker Stop Discussing the Market for Years? posted by honeyoneohone:

Good thread!!

Well, everytime I listen to bob he seems like he only states the obvious besides current events, politics and sports. I don't think he shares anything new since he thinks the listening public are moochers.

-- posted by pete2214

Permalink Print Discussion Email Discussion Join the latest discussions

» honeyoneohone - Thanks, Pete2214

In response to Re: Why Did Brinker Stop Discussing the Market for Years? posted by pete2214:

.
Thank you for your comments.

You are quite correct that Brinker thinks that the public are "moochers." He made this quite clear when he called his radio listeners "freeloaders" in a post he made as "donlane" --later changed to "mistertopes" when his true identity was exposed on another thread here. And notice how he speaks of his peers with utter contempt.

Here is what he wrote:

To:Boca_PETE who wrote (3395)
From: mister topes Sunday, Feb 15, 1998 10:50 PM
View Replies (2) | Respond to of 20900

Your comments are salient to say the least. Last year I counted the weekends I was forced to endure the likes of William, the Earl of Boredom, Flanagan and Neale, Did You Buy My Latest Book, Godfrey, and the Motley, Greater than all, Fools. It came to a grand total of nine weekends without The Brink's on air presence. Assuming his new contract includes nine or ten weekends off, I would say the odds of him being on vacation during a sell signal are very good to excellent. Wouldn't it be neat to see Brinker issue a sell signal while on vacation from radio, have his subscribers sellout at or near the top, and then see the market collapse with all the radio freeloaders left to fend for themselves when he returns only to tell them the horse is out of the barn and they are on their own! Would not surprise me in the least. Poetic justice!

http://www.siliconinvestor.com/stocktalk...

Here are the links to the three archives of all the "donlane-mistertopes" posts.

http://www.suite101.com/discussion.cfm/i...

http://www.suite101.com/discussion.cfm/i...

http://www.suite101.com/discussion.cfm/i...

-- posted by honeyoneohone

Permalink Print Discussion Email Discussion Join the latest discussions

» SteveT - Congratulations!

In response to An Archive For Brinker's Critics posted by honeyoneohone:

My dear friend Honey congratulations on your new thread! I must give brinker credit for making me believe that I could be my own money manager, but I out grew his advice long ago. These days I do get fired up listening to Dave Ramsey. He really tries to help people change their life from what isn’t working to something that will work.

Old bob brinker reminds of what Dave said about Carleton Sheets. Sheets probably has made 1% of his net worth buying and selling real estate and 99% selling tapes. Did you notice brinker’s three portfolios have a value of more or less $200K after 15- 17 years? At the peak on the stock market bubble I seem to recall a poster estimating brinker’s newsletter income in excess of $30M per year! Yet his biggest portfolio as of the end of August 2005 has only $231,673. Could it be that bob is not such a risk taker with his own money?

BTW did you hear Dave Ramsey today? That story about the 1952 cat ranch was a hoot. None of it was true but I thought it was a very good illustration of how easily John Q. Public can allow the wool to be pulled over their eyes when they think they can make an easy buck.

-- posted by SteveT

Permalink Print Discussion Email Discussion Join the latest discussions

» reporter20 - Re: Re: An Archive For Brinker's Critics

In response to Re: An Archive For Brinker's Critics posted by rasputin:

Whew, I'm glad you said "kitties", Ras.

Just wanted to pop in and say hi to my Honey and to let you know I'm reading all this.

Will who?

-- posted by reporter20

Permalink Print Discussion Email Discussion Join the latest discussions

» honeyoneohone - Re: Congratulations!

In response to Congratulations! posted by SteveT:

.
Thank you, Steve...

Yes, Brinker was very good at teaching, and making people like me believe that one could be his/her own money manager. I will always be grateful to him for that. Thanks to what I learned from him, I saved myself from the Dean Witter Shark School.

He would still be on the pedestal that I had put him on if the internet hadn't happened. I even purchased a special radio in the late 1990's to record his program when I couldn't listen to him.

Starting with the saga of his own message boards (stay tuned, it will eventually be covered here) and then the ability to compare notes with others on other message boards, exposed things about him that had long been covered up.

Dave Ramsey? I hate to admit that I never heard of him. Please tell me where/when to listen to him.

-- posted by honeyoneohone

Permalink Print Discussion Email Discussion Join the latest discussions

» honeyoneohone - What a Nice Surprise, Rep!

In response to Re: Re: An Archive For Brinker's Critics posted by reporter20:

.
So good to hear from you! First chance I get, I will drop by Chat and find out what's up with you these days.

In the meantime, you will be glad to know that I type with my shoes off...

-- posted by honeyoneohone

Permalink Print Discussion Email Discussion Join the latest discussions

» SteveT - Dave Ramsey info

In response to Re: Congratulations! posted by honeyoneohone:

Here is his web site.
http://www.daveramsey.com/radio/home/

Ask around at church I would think some may know of him. Dave focuses on helping people get out of debt so they have money to spend, save, and give. He is big into giving. A real gem imho.

-- posted by SteveT

Permalink Print Discussion Email Discussion Join the latest discussions