Foreign Mercenaries
- PeterKR
- John_Barr
- manduka
- John_Barr
- PeterKR
- John_Barr
- PeterKR
- John_Barr
- manduka
- John_Barr
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» PeterKR - English Girls marrying foreign soldiers.
Have found this discussion via a web search - I think I can add some, and ask for help at the same time.In "Garrison-Ten Military Towns" ed Peter Dietz, there is mention of the Garrison Church at Colchester.
"Inside the church is a memorial plaque to 64 marriages between Colchester girls and German soldiers which took place in the church on the same day, 20 Oct 1866......during Oct nearly 150 marriages were solemnised between German soldiers and Colchester girls in the garrison church."
I hav two of these marriages in my family. Sarah Nurse married Gustav Adolph KRAFFT on Dec 25 1856 in the Parish Church of St Botolph, Colchester.
Gustav's occupation is given as Shoemaker but liiks more like Shoemaster (possibly said in German but written phonetically). 20 years later he was a Riding Master (deceased).
Two months earlier, on Oct 18 1856, Ann's sister, Sarah Nurse had married August HERBST. August was a private in the BR F Legion.
The address of both girls was Albion Court, Colchester, as was that of KRAFFT. HERBST gave his address as "camp"
I hope this information is of interest, if not of use to others. If anyone has an inkling of what happened to Gustav KRAFFT, I would like to know - after his marriage he seems to have fvanished from the face of the earth, although Ann was still in England in 1881. Ann and Gustav may have had two daughters b 1857 and 1859 butI am still following that lead...
-- posted by PeterKR
» John_Barr - Re: English Girls marrying foreign soldiers.
In response to message posted by PeterKR:Welcome to the site Peter and many thanks for that interesting contribution. It looks as though a research visit to Colchester might well shed interesting light on the British Foreign Legion's time there. When I can get round to it, like so many other interesting projects competing for alas severely restricted time!
The problem with trying to trace the members is that they were quickly dispersed at the end of the war, and went a variety of separate ways, as earlier discussion here bears out. The German Swiss and Italian legions were finally disbanded in the autumn of 1856. The fact that Gustav married on Christmas Day might suggest that he intended staying on in England, having a ready made trade to ply. Have you tried the PRO? I presume you have already followed up the source which gave you the information on him 20 years after the marriage?
-- posted by John_Barr
» manduka - Re: Re: English Girls marrying foreign soldiers.
In response to Re: English Girls marrying foreign soldiers. posted by John_Barr:Hello all again as I continue to study my salty paternal ancestorWladyslawaMandukaka. I wanted to tell you all that part of my research and other fascinating info on Kent is found in Michael George's book "Coast of Conflict". (GOOGLE it) Some great info is there about the Crimea and the legions.( along with my ancestor's unpleasant tale") I hope anyone who had a relative in the 2nd Light Dragoon Cavalry 1855-56 at Shorncliffefe would contact me. My ancestor was an Polish-born Italian and Sergeant of the 2nd Light BF Cavalry. He married Mary Whitehead of Sandgate in May 1856 and found his way eventually to New York, joined the US Army cavalry in 1864 (25th volunteers) and the rest is history. I am very interested if any other Crimean legion vets came and "bought in" to our civil war. I also am curious as to his Port of Embarcation here, thinking Halifax, Quebec City orSummersidede or Charlottetown (Prince Edward island) as possibilities. Does anyone have the data on the legionaireses who came to Cananda? Worse, does anyone know if and who the americans who were illegally recruited from the East Coast "taverns" by britishs agents as mercenaries were? My ancestor arrived Dover October 1855.(?)Thank you. I have extensive info from the KEW and other sources. My new email is: manduke1956@aol.com
SALUD
-- posted by manduka
» John_Barr - Re: Re: Re: English Girls marrying foreign soldiers.
In response to Re: Re: English Girls marrying foreign soldiers. posted by manduka:You've certainly made impressive progress since you last contacted us, Joe. Many thanks for the update and also for the tip about the book "Coast of Conflict" which I hadn't come across. If any subscriber can help Joe with his questions, ideally respond here so we can all share - alternatively you have Joe's new e-mail address if you're shy.
As I'm sure has become apparent, my knowledge of detail on the Foreign Brigades is severely limited, so any matters of general interest arising from your research which you would care to share with us, Joe, would be very welcome here on this discussion page.
-- posted by John_Barr
» PeterKR - Re: English Girls marrying foreign soldiers.
In response to English Girls marrying foreign soldiers. posted by PeterKR:Out of interest - I have, I believe, traced Gustav, as G.A.Kraft b 1823 Leipzig, Shoemaker in the 1st Rifles, BGL
Peter
-- posted by PeterKR
» John_Barr - Re: Re: English Girls marrying foreign soldiers.
In response to Re: English Girls marrying foreign soldiers. posted by PeterKR:Well done Peter, it would be of interest to our faithful to know exactly how you managed to trace Gustav to the 1st Rifles?
-- posted by John_Barr
» PeterKR - Re: Re: Re: English Girls marrying foreign soldiers.
In response to Re: Re: English Girls marrying foreign soldiers. posted by John_Barr:Found his attestation papers in the National Archives. Previous service 1848-51 i 6th Battalion Holstein....another lead to follow - where can i find an order of battle for the battle of Bov-Flensberg or the battle of Isted?????
Peter
-- posted by PeterKR
» John_Barr - Prussian Army 1848-51
In response to Re: Re: Re: English Girls marrying foreign soldiers. posted by PeterKR:I would presume that the 6th Holstein would have served in the Prussian-Danish War over Schleswich-Holstein as his service dates correspond to the dates of this war. I haven't heard of the Battle of Bov-Flensberg and I thought the Battle of Isted took place during the Hungarian 1848 uprising, but that involved Austrians, not Prussians, so maybe I have the wrong battle. However I doubt whether either conflict was significant enough to warrant detailed records being maintained internationally and I can't direct you to any Military historian whom I know to have made a study of this campaign.
Any record useful to you, if one exists, is likely to be in the German language. Their Embassies tend to be helpful and they may be able to suggest a possible source of information in Germany. Good luck!
Sorry for the long response time, but since we have been 'archived' I don't visit the site so often. Promise to do so at least weekly in future!
-- posted by John_Barr
» manduka - Soldiers arrival in Canada
I have identified a newspaper entry from Quebec City, September 3, 1856. It states, in part, that 3 to 400 "German" soldiers arrived from Liverpool who were mercenaries. They arrived on the bark "Martin Luther". (I have not yet found the correct documentation on this ship) They had plenty of money and made quite a raucous at the downtown pubs. It further states that the soldiers were given land in "upper Canada". They departed "Tuesday evening on the steamer "Quebec" bound for Montreal." The writer states not all the soldiers left Quebec City.This entire arrival is an interesting project, as I can't help but wonder if any "illegal" american mercenaries (if, in fact, they existed) arrived home this way. My legionaire ancestor Wladyslaw Manduka first appears again after Shorncliffe in NY in 1857, so I will attempt to obtain a passenger list. My new email is manduke1956@aol.com
Also I am very interested in any other researcher who has a legionaire ancestor listing either "Polen" as his place of origin, or "economist" as profession.(from KEW files)or any personal information of legionaires of the 2nd B.F. Cavalry. The profession of economist means soldier for hire.
I am retired and can assist others in genealogical or military research.
Thank you.
Joe Manduke
67 Central St.-3
Summerside, PE
C1N 3L2
-- posted by manduka
» John_Barr - Soldiers arrival in Canada
In response to Soldiers arrival in Canada posted by manduka:Thanks for that Joe. Yes American 'illegal' mercenaries certainly existed - some 700 were recruited between April and June 1855. They passed through a depot in Halifax Nova Scotia, so it is feasible to suppose that they came home via Canada after the War. Certainly they would not have docked in Boston to the strains of 'The Star Spangled Banner'; their recruitment contravened the Neutrality Act of 1818, and Britain had skated on very thin ice in employing agents in the USA to identify the recruits and send them up to sign on in Canada. Worse still, the agents were a motley band who made no effort to hide their activities, which was why the US authorities were able to put a stop to the project so quickly. The British authorities denied all knowledge although the Americans well knew that John Crampton the British Minister in Washington, was the architect of the whole affair. But Anglo-American relations were already near rock bottom, so one more cause for grievance didn't make much difference. There were strong rumours that The US were helping the Russians, though I don't think anything was ever proved conclusively, nor was it felt in anyone's best interests afterwards to try to do so.
-- posted by John_Barr
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