Fat Judas (An Interesting View)

» Disciple01 - Fat Judas

Have you ever wondered why in Matt 27:5 it says Judas hung himself and Acts 1:18 it says Judas fell head long and burst open.

Acts 1:18 (With the reward he got for his wickedness, Judas bought a field; there he fell headlong, his body burst open and all his intestines spilled out.
Matt 27:5 So Judas threw the money into the temple and left. Then he went away and hanged himself.

Here we have to gospel writers with 2 seemingly different views. We undersatnd the gospels to be written by men who walked with Jesus or were made Apostles by the original 12. They recorded the accounts of Jesus' life and surrounding events. We consider these books to be inspired by God. How could these two accounts be so different. Mathew was one of the original 12. He walked with Jesus and was an eyewitness. Luke is the only non Jew author of the gospels. He was appointed as an apostle. Luke was a physician and is described as educated, maticulous and accurate with his work. Archeology has confirmed many of his writings. How is it that there views were so different. Is it like someone seeing the glass half full or the glass half empty? To shed a little light on this there was a finding of some writings by a guy named Papias. Papias was believed to be one of the early church fathers that lived during the life time of the Apostles. He was a student of John(Apostle, original 12) and was also believed to be an eyewitness to the authorship of Mark and Mathew's gospel accounts. Not much is known about Papias other than the framents found and other writings of church fathers that mention his name.
In these fragments he describes the death of Judas. He describes Judas as being so fat that he could not walk through areas where wagons could easily fit through. He described Judas' head as being so swollen that you could not see his eyes. In his account he says that Judas did not die by hanging but was cut down before he suffocated and when he fell, he fell head long burst open and his bowels gushed out. This would difinitely explain the two different accounts by Luke and Mathew. What is also interesting is that it is in line with Jesus' character. What we would call hideous in our eyes Jesus would totally not even notice because he would be looking not at physical appearances. Secondly if you look in the book of Isaiah 53:2-4 Isaiah prophesies about the appearance of Jesus. Not a man of beauty or majesty.His appearance was not one that was desirable by men. He was one that men turned their faces from. In other words Jesus by our standards was hideous looking in appearance himself. What a different view of Jesus than the ones we have of him and the disciples hanging on our walls.
The writings of papias also would show the character of Luke the physician and Mathew. Luke being very maticulous, accurate and a physician you would expect him to be precise on the exact point of death of Judas. Not by the hanging itself but the fall is what actually killed Judas. Mathew only being concerned with the initial event. All he sees is that Judas went an hung himself. He probably did not even know or care that Judas might have been still alive when he was cut down. Interesting stuff huh? Papias' writings are not considered inspired so we cant view it as gospel but it is interesting to think about. Below is the actual account of Papias.

My 2 cents: I suppose Judas' neck was so fat that it protected him from suffocation.

The account of Judas' death from Papias

3:1 |Apollinarius. `Judas did not die by hanging, but
lived on, having been cut down before he was
suffocated. And the Acts of the Apostles show this,
that _falling headlong he burst asunder in the midst,
and all his bowels gushed out._ This fact is related
more clearly by Papias, the disciple of John, in the
fourth (book) of the Exposition of the Oracles of the
Lord as follows: --
3:2 |"Judas walked about in this world a terrible
example of impiety; his flesh swollen to such an
extent that, where a waggon can pass with ease, he was
not able to pass, no, not even the mass of his head
merely. They say that his eyelids swelled to such an
extent that he could not see the light at all, while
as for his eyes they were not visible even by a
physician looking through an instrument, so far had
they sunk from the surface."'
3:3 --none --

-- posted by Disciple01

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» Snead - The rope slipped or broke

There is no substantial or important difference in the two accounts.

Jesus was beaten to a pulp after His arrest. His former appearance would have been normal or average in order to make it a fair and even choice relative to leadership ability or other assumptions in regard to outward impressions for others. Jesus was not ugly. He probably was not overly handsome. The portrait renditions of His appearance could have been odd to the people of that time. Most of the sculpture and paintings of the era look odd to me. It is usually relative to the culture and the time.

Isaiah 52
7
"How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings, that publisheth peace; that bringeth good tidings of good, that publisheth salvation; that saith unto Zion, Thy God reigneth!
8
Thy watchmen shall lift up the voice; with the voice together shall they sing: for they shall see eye to eye, when the LORD shall bring again Zion.
9
Break forth into joy, sing together, ye waste places of Jerusalem: for the LORD hath comforted his people, he hath redeemed Jerusalem.
10
The LORD hath made bare his holy arm in the eyes of all the nations; and all the ends of the earth shall see the salvation of our God.
11
Depart ye, depart ye, go ye out from thence, touch no unclean thing; go ye out of the midst of her; be ye clean, that bear the vessels of the LORD.
12
For ye shall not go out with haste, nor go by flight: for the LORD will go before you; and the God of Israel will be your rearward.
13
Behold, my servant shall deal prudently, he shall be exalted and extolled, and be very high.
14
As many were astonied at thee; his visage was so marred more than any man, and his form more than the sons of men:
15
So shall he sprinkle many nations; the kings shall shut their mouths at him: for that which had not been told them shall they see; and that which they had not heard shall they consider.

Isaiah 53
7
He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
8
He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
9
And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.
10
Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
11
He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
12
Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors".

-- posted by Snead

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» kwm - Re: Fat Judas

In response to message posted by Disciple01:
This is an example of accepting several false premises in order to dig into some dubious details. The Christian gospels were all written after the destruction of the Temple in 70 C.E. The actual authors are anonymous, with the reputed authorship given to enhance the authority of the text. Needless to say, none of these authors were disciples, or even knew Yeshua. Rather they invented Jesus out of a Yeshua tradition. The only identifiable writer in the New Testament who predates 70 A.D. is Saul/Paul, and he discounts any notion of a virgin birth, has nothing to say about a physical resurrection, and apparently has no knowledge of Yeshua's life -- despite self-reported discussions with Peter and James. As for Judas, if there is any one character in the gospels that is fabricated--this is probably the one. Just consider the name -- Judas / Judah!!! Get it? This is a method that most religions use -- demonize your enemies -- in this case the Yahweh believers or Jews. So...the Gospel writers were operating 40 to 80 years after their stories supposedly occurred, probably using source documents that no longer exist, and were trying to establish a new religion in competition with the Jews -- who are rewriting their own religion. In this context, the hanging/falling question needs to be rephrased.

-- posted by kwm

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