Seasonal Allergy Relief

» spinlily - I used to work with a group of biochemists, and I'm skeptical o

I used to work with a group of biochemists, and I'm skeptical of the claims of biochemistry in any area, whether they're used to support conventional or natural medicine.

Meat from the grocery store these days does contain toxins, and it's usually high in fact, so there's enough reason to eliminate or minimize it in the diet.

I've used nettles with good success to alleviate allergic symptoms. Nettle has long been eaten as a vegetable - it's quite safe. I've had no more side effects from drinking nettle tea than from drinking spinach juice, i.e., zero side effects. It's worked as well for me as a decongestant on many occasions.

I think it's a good idea to analyze health claims, but don't throw away some good remedies because of one argument that wasn't up to par logically.

-- posted by spinlily

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» spinlily - Anecdotes

If you've studied epistemology, Mike, you know that anecdotal is all I have to go on.

"Merely" anecdotal is gratuitously derogatory. I wonder why you would choose to use such an obvious rhetorical device when I said nothing of an offensive nature regarding you personally.

I predict that science will "discover" a substance in nettles beneficial to human health if and when the herb ever gains popularity, as others have.

Pure science is a wonderful thing -- one of the great human endeavors like architecture and epic poetry, but it's rarely supported these days. Biological science is a slut to pharmaceutical and genetic engineering firms out for profit, not truth.

-- posted by spinlily

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» HerbalMuse - Yada, yada, yada

*sigh*

You've been here before, haven't you Mike? I have to wonder why, since it's blatantly obvious that you belong to the Steven Barret school of anything other than an allopathic approach to wellness is quackery. What else are you "sceptical" of? God, motherhood, the fact that rain falls down? It's amusing that you actually used the term "pseudoscience!"

Once again it seems necessary to remind you that this discussion area is not here for you to debate the validity of botanical medicine. Thanks for your interest in what goes on over here, but you can practice your "quackwatching" on your own soapbox with your fellow skeptics in your own area. Those of us that have "merely anectodal" experience to offer, don't feel the urge to prove it or to convert everyone else to their way of thinking.

Have a really nice day.

-- posted by HerbalMuse

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» LadyB - You have to admit, he's inspiring.....

OH would that we could find an herb,
Some merry little weed,
To give our friend, Mike Huben here
To help him with his need.....

This need he has while singing
That same old SCIENTIFIC SONG
To make sure we all KNOW he's RIGHT
And all of us are just completely
Totally, and ABSOLUTELY WRONG!!!!!

Lighten up, Mr. Huben! We've been using those dreaded anecdotes to share what we know LONNNNNG before you and the 'scientific community' decided that YOURS is the ONLY way of LOOKING at things!

I, for one, really appreciate anecdotes. I listen when ANYone says: "I tried this for my [whatever] and it really seemed to work." That doesn't necessarily means it works for EVERYONE, but it worked for that person. Yes. I agree that anyone who takes that one anecdote and decides that's IT for everybody is doing everyone a disservice. No problem there. But take it for what it is, and do what you will with it.

But as Dennis Miller says: "That's just my opinion, I could be wrong."

-- posted by LadyB

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» LadyB - OK. Now that we're back on track,

...let me ask you a question. Do you know of any effects of taking extra quercitin for really scary anaphylactic allergies? I have, within the past three and one years respectively become suddenly deathly allergic to cats and nuts. I am NOT talking itchy eyes here, I am talking lung PAIN and a horrifying feeling of not being able to breathe. I can STOP it if I get into trouble by taking Osha Root tincture,(my understanding is that Osha root works by stopping the histamine receptors from even CALLING for histamine production) but I do SO wish I could PREVENT it. The list of people I can no longer visit because of their pets gets longer all the time. Any thoughts?

-- posted by LadyB

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» HerbalMuse - Re: Quercetin and Allergies

Bioflavonoids, especially quercetin, prevent the production of leukotrienes and the release of histamine from mast cells. You can take a supplement or extract - ginkgo or grape seed are good sources of flavonoids that are readily absorbed. Incidentally, nutrients with high antioxidant value (such as vitamin C, E and green tea) also help. Black tea also has antioxidants, but because green tea is produced from unfermented leaves it has more of the beneficial catechins intact, specifically ECGC.

I've never used or studied Osha root, so I can't comment much on that. But, I have an asthmatic friend who smokes lobelia, an old-time remedy. I wouldn't suggest doing this though (and I've warned her not to but she does it anyway) because too much lobelia can actually cause respiratory arrest and a few other unpleasant effects. Who knows how much of the active agents she's getting when inhaling the smoke? Maybe none at all.

I have another friend who was allergic to cats - until she got one!

One thing you might try is a homepathic remedy for asthma/allergies. You probably know how homeopathic solutions work...it's the same principle as getting allergy vaccinations to help the body's immune system to kick in to prevent a problem before it starts. But, your type of allergies (including the nut thing, which is one of the most common food allergies) are usually pretty complicated. To really get at the issue and take command of the problem you would have to do some work with an ND (or at least a nutritionist or allergist) to explore your individual background and different avenues of approach, including herbs, supplements and possibly, a rotation diet for a period of time.

Good luck!

-- posted by HerbalMuse

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» LadyB - That's lots of good info, Karyn

I, too, have seen wonderful results with Lobelia, usually in tincture form, but in VERY small quantities. They don't call it Puke Weed for nothing......

Bioflavinoids, eh.....how interesting. The one thing that Susun Weed taught us to use Toadflax flower tincture for was bioflavinoids....and don't I suddenly have just OODLES of it popping up all OVER the place.....Might be worth a try.

My anecdotal experience with Osha Root is that it seems to keep the reaction from going any FARTHER than it had gone before it occured to me to take it. I usually have to take Motherwort tincture with it to stop the panic, but in the three years that I have been having this reaction to cats, I have never once wound up in the emergency room.

Unlike your friend, I always had cats until I suddenly became ALLERGIC to them!!!

Well, I'm going to try some of your suggestions and I will let you know (anecdotally, of course) how I do. Thanks.

-- posted by LadyB

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» HerbalMuse - Re: Temper[ment]?

Hello?

Push all the buttons you want, but I will simply not allow you to goad myself, or others involved in this site, into a rhetorical debate on the validity of botanical therapies. What part of that do you not understand?

Since you are a fellow Suite101 Editor, albeit a "skeptical" one, I must tell you that I find your behavior here to be highly inappropriate and unprofessional. And, it seems that you have a reputation for seeking out sites like mine just to air your cynical views. But, for your benefit, I will only say this once: I always rely upon studies/reports from peer-reviewed journals to support what I write on this site or anywhere else. In other words, I don't make this stuff up. Unless a person has been under a rock for ten years, it would be hard to dismiss these studies or the fact that their findings are not made of fluff or folklore. Feel free to look them up if you must check for accuracy. But, I have to tell you, that as the author of two books and more than 200 magazine articles on this topic, I do not feel it necessary to provide or validate these studies to you specifically. If you feel that I must, please call my agent.

As I've said in the past, if you have something of value to contribute to this discussion, that would be welcome. But, if you do, please refrain from referring to herbal medicine as "pseudoscience." It would make your posts more palatable, and frankly, more sensible. In other words, you can get your point across without behaving like the "enemy."

-- posted by HerbalMuse

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» HerbalMuse - Pass the Ketchup

Here's a passage under the Asthma & Hayfever section of The Encyclopedia of Natural Medicine, Michael T, Murray, N.D. and Joseph Pizzorno, N.D. (Prima/1996), pg. 151.

"In a long-term trial, a vegan diet (elimination of all animal products) provided significant improvement in 92% of the 25 treated patients who completed the study (nine dropped out). The researchers also found a reduction in the tendency to infectious disease. It is important to recognize, however, that while 71% of the patients responded within four months, one year of therapy was required before the 92% level was reached.

The diet excluded all meat, fish, eggs and dairy products....

The beneficial effects of this dietary regimen are probably related to two ares:
1. elimination of common food allergens; and
2. altered fatty acid metabolism <<The production of leukotrienes that contribute to the allergic and inflammatory reactions found in asthma [and in hayfever] are derived from arachidonic acid, a fatty acid found exclusively in animal products.

Leukotrienes are 1,000 times more potent as stimulators of bronchial constriction than histamine. It has been observed that people with asthma have an imbalance in fatty acid metabolism, leading to a relative increase in leukotriene production. This implies that eliminating animal products may be of significant importance in the treatment of asthma, a hypothesis confirmed in the study described above."

And from the same title, 2nd Edition (Prima/1998), Allergy and Hayfever, pg. 265

"In regard to altered prostaglandin metabolism, the avoidance of dietary sources of arachidonic acid (derived from animal products) appears to be quite significant. The prostaglandins and leukotrienes derived from arachidonic acid contribute significantly to the allergic reation in asthma. Decreasing the availability of arachidonic acid as the starting point of these inflammatory compunds appears to explain some aspects of the efficacy of the vegan diet."

Source:

1. Lindahl O, et. al., "Vegan diet regimen with reduced medication in the treatment of bronchial asthma." Journal of Asthma, 1985 (22);45-55.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/htbin-post/Entrez/query?uid=4019393&form=6&db=m&Dopt=b

Now, I have a weekend to enjoy. This will be my last - read my cyber lips - response to your aggressive skepticism. If you suspect that Drs. Murray and Pizzorno are making the above information up, you'll have to take it up with them. And, I've never written for the National Enquirer? Do they pay well?

-- posted by HerbalMuse

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