Who Are The Black Irish?
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- Marcyshamb
- hakim9
- Adria123
- kiwianna
- hakim9
- jmciric
- lilith_eve
- mbc1964
- hakim9
- AsnRiaders
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» Marcyshamb - Re: Re: Black Irish - American myth
In response to Re: Black Irish - American myth posted by irish7774:Recient genetic testing puts the Irish most closely related to the Basque of Spain, and the original people of Europe. The Irish don't have dark skin. Their skin is light, and often freckled. Their hair can be black, brown, blond or red. What differntiates the black irish from other irish is their black hair only. Strait or wavy thick black Caucasian hair.
The eyes, can be blue, green or brown..but often green. I know many black irish families with blue eyes.
Here in New England, where most of the Irish in the USA arrived from the potato famine era one speaks of them mainly being from Western and South Western Irleand, catholic, and black Irish. The potato famine didn't affect all of ireland, but was rather something visited upon Western Irelands catholic farming folks, which is where the black Irish hail from.
Legends in Ireland place the black irish ancestrys origins in Spain, and give over two stories for their existance.. One story, which is pritty much discounted tells of the sinking of the Spanish Amada and male sailor survivors washing up on the western shores of Ireland and mating with the local coastal village women.
The other legend, with some of the details based in fact, but still not completly provable tells of the spanish seaport that was built at gallway bay, west ireland during the sixtten or seventeen hundreds. The fact is the territory of the black Irish fan out from the central position of gallway bay. The fact is the seaport did exist and was spanish. The rest is only speculation.
Given the new discovery, that the Irish are decendent of the original europeaners and closest relatives to the Basques...and the Basques being in northern Spain France lends, if anything, curiosity when thinking of the Black Irish claim or origins.
The black Irish in the USA hail from two sources..the actual black Irish who came here during the potato famine from western Ireland circa mid 1800's...and the other kind..folks who wanted to pass as white, and so claimed to be black Irish mistaking the term to mean irish that were dark or black.
For an irishman, whats black in the black irish is the hair. If someone is irish and has dark skin, it came by them from elsewhere outside of Ireland..and probably was aquired on this side of the pond.
Marcy
-- posted by Marcyshamb
» hakim9 - Re: Re: Re: Black Irish - American myth
To suggest that any dark in an Irish was acquired on this side of the OCEAN reminds me of the Spanish assertion that all FILTHY blood (Muslim) was sent to N.-Africa or shipped to Mexico S.-America And The Philippines. The Muslims were in Spain for over 800 years, to say none were lift behind is outrages; to say none of the millions of WHITE slaves ( Irish, English, Scots, French, Swedes .....) who were sold and bought in N.-Africa ever made back or if any did; not one was pregnant or not one BROWN slave from N.Africa ever made it to the land of WHITES and found a very ugly-old-maid who took him for a husband, is but ludicrous.My last name is Dermish, unlike most Western European, North, Central and South American names it's not a slave name, meaning the name was kept in the same blood line, let it be in a Dutch Island in the Pacific, Holland, India, Uzbekistan, Turkey, Albania, Libya, Tunisia, Morocco, Argentina, the hills of W.Virginia in the 17th century or my own of-spring in Ohio in the 20th century. on the west coast of Ireland there's a rock called Spaniard's rock also known as Dermish Island !
Coincidence ? I very much doubt it.
since i submitted my DNA to the Nationalgeographic's Genographic Project i been contacted by some people with WASP sounding names, who wanted to know more about me because we have a common DNA link, after contacting them and telling'em about who i'am and where i've been the last 500 years (blood line) not one responded back, after all who now-days would want a sand-neger in for a relative.
it'll be very interesting one day to find that there's more of my BROWN in Ireland than there's GREEN in my American ex in-laws.
-- posted by hakim9
» Adria123 - Black Irish....
What a cool site...glad I found it. I don't know if I believe the whole "Spaniards landed on Ireland after they were shipwrecked from the armada and got it on with Irish girls." Seems a little improbable to me, considering the circumstances, but I will do more research.
My mom always tells me I'm Black Irish, but in my case, it IS true...my mom is Irish-American, and my dad is Puerto Rican, so if you are looking for the real Black Irish, here I am.....LOL!
-- posted by Adria123
» kiwianna - Black Irish & Spaniards
I've just been to a Flamenco show. The dancing reminded me of the old-fashioned Irish jig. So much so, in fact, that my research has brought me to this site ! Some may think it a little spurious that dance and music should be taken into account when looking at links between cultures. Besides the genetic link (see www.BBC.co.uk website) between the Irish and the Basques, my French flatmate tells me that the Basques have always had an instrument at least similar, if not identical, to the bagpipes and that their music is nearly identical.Now for another layer that might explain where the black irish came from....I've seen several Indian Kathak dances and was amazed at how it was extraordinarily similar to Flamenco. I really couldn't figure out how this could be. I found that I wasn't alone in this observation and that some Kathak and Flamenco dancers themselves had noticed this to the extent that put on shows to explore the two types of dance (I can't remember where, but it'll no doubt be on the internet).
One theory for the connection is that gypsies from India travelled (is this where the traveller connection is ?), went through parts of Europe, a branch of which may have ended up in Spain.
Actually, I rememer seeing a film from about Flamenco around five years ago. I can't remember the name (let me know if anyone has any suggestions), but one of the lines of the songs was about their gypsy origins.
It's all pretty interesting and the genetic research might help us a lot in the future.
After more research, I discovered that I wasn't alone in this thought, and in fact Flamenco and
I've also read that Flamenco is very similar to Indian Kathak dance.
I too have read about genetic research linking the
-- posted by kiwianna
» hakim9 - Black Irish & Spaniards
Kiwianna,if you like Flamenco you have to listen to Gipsy Kings, get The Gipsy Kings Live. later, much later get their Compas album; and listen for the Egyptian Hossam Ramzy making love with his flute.
iI grew up listening to so called Arabic music ( which is not Arabic at all); i could lose my self hearing it, when i first heard Irish and Celtic music I thought I went to heaven; it was home all over again.
-- posted by hakim9
» jmciric - Black eyed Irish
Wow,I had never heard that the Black eyed Irish where the decendents of Spainish Saliors. What my mother always told me was that the Black eyed irish were the decendents of the 7 kings of Ireland. My great great aunt who was 100% irish and a catholic nun, was one of the Black eyed irish, she had black eyes, and when i was born i had black eyes, which have grown lighter and ligher ever since. At the moment they are a dark to mid blue with black intermixed.
-- posted by jmciric
» lilith_eve - who are the black irish?
my fathers mother's side of the family is fully of irish descent. his mother has blonde hair and blue eyes. most of my family as those characteristics. either that or red hair and blue eyes. her husband, my grandfather, was of scottish and irish descesnt. he had dark brown (since there is no true natural black hair colour)hair and brown eyes. his had an olive complexion. his irish descention was "black irish" aunt and two uncles recieved the traits os my grandmother. fair skinned and blonde. my father received my grandfathers "black irish" traits. he has curly dark brown hair, brown eyes and dark skin, even darker than my grandfathers. my mother was mixed in ethnicity. but containing no black irish, or any other darker skinned heritage. my siblings recieved blonde hair, fair skin, and blue eyes, but i recieved dark brown hair, skin just a little lighter than my fathers and green-hazel eyes. i have always wondered where the black irish came from since i am one of them. my last name is McGill, which is n doubt a mixture of scottish and irish, but i'm not sure what my name has to do with anything-- posted by lilith_eve
» mbc1964 - Re: Black Irish
In response to Re: Black Irish posted by hakim9:i have particpated in the national geographic project. i haven't learned anything yet but anticipate that over time it will bear fruit.
my curiosity in the 'black irish' comes from a tale my father told of our ancestors being the descendants of a spanish-jewish sailor shipwrecked off the coast of ireland from the spanish armada. our surname, cunney, is not a common irish name. i have been told that it comes from the surname cunjar or cunha. i am looking for info to back that up.
-- posted by mbc1964
» hakim9 - Re: Black Irish
from the NG web site you can submit you results to another" familytreedna.com " that's how i did it.
the other thing to remember is; that not only the Spanish Armada but also that Muslim Spain "Andalusia" was a refuge to thousands upon thousands of Irish, Scots and even Brits who fled or were expelled (because of their religion) from home by the kings and queens of England and over time fought back and returned with the Muslim's help; along with them Bibles in their won languages translated by the Andalusia's Muslim-Jews and surely with some "loose" DNA along the way. as to the Jews; Andalusia at the time of Muslims was the only home they ever had where they were welcome, appreciated and were an integral part of the society/government. so you got a lot to look into.
-- posted by hakim9
» AsnRiaders - Re: Re: Black Irish - American myth
My family lore states adamantly that it comes from the Spanish Armada. They come from County Claire. There is a town there on the coast called Spanish Point. My Mom had jet black hair and blue eyes. Any other questions?-- posted by AsnRiaders
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